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Might be a dumb question but does taking online classes from your home country count as being "present in the US" for the substantial presence test? I was stuck in my home country during part of 2022 due to COVID but still enrolled in US university online.

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Dylan Cooper

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No, online classes from your home country definitely don't count as physical presence. The substantial presence test is strictly about your physical location - you actually need to be on US soil for those days to count. Even if you were taking classes from a US university, if your body wasn't in the US, those days don't count.

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NebulaNomad

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Just wanted to add some clarity about the 5-year exempt period for F-1 students since there seems to be some confusion in the thread. The 5 calendar years start counting from the first year you were present in the US on F-1 status, regardless of how many days you were actually here. So for the original poster who first entered in 2019, your exempt years would be 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023. This means 2024 would be your first year where days count toward the substantial presence test. However, since you were only present for about 240 days in 2024 (and this is your first countable year), you likely don't meet the substantial presence test yet and would still file as a non-resident alien using Form 1040NR. One important thing to remember: even as a non-resident alien, your US-source income (like your on-campus job) is still fully taxable. You'll report this on Form 1040NR, and depending on your home country's tax treaty with the US, you might qualify for certain exemptions or reduced tax rates.

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Dylan Cooper

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This is super helpful clarification! I'm also an F-1 student and was getting confused about when the 5-year clock starts ticking. So just to confirm my understanding - if someone first entered the US on F-1 status in August 2021, their exempt years would be 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024, and 2025, meaning 2026 would be their first year where days actually count toward the substantial presence test? And it doesn't matter if they left the US and came back multiple times during those years - it's still based on those 5 calendar years?

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Amaya Watson

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As someone completely new to estate planning, this entire discussion has been absolutely eye-opening! I had no idea that trusts like QPRTs could become so complicated when they expire. What strikes me most is how many people are emphasizing that the "obvious" solution of just giving the house back to your father could actually create much bigger tax problems than keeping the current arrangement. The property appreciation since 2013 seems to be a huge factor that could turn what feels like a simple family decision into a massive gift tax situation. I'm also really impressed by how many specific resources people have shared - from the ACTEC directory for finding specialized attorneys to the detailed questions you should ask when interviewing them. It's clear this requires someone with very specific experience in expired QPRTs, not just general estate planning knowledge. The timeline pressure seems concerning too - it sounds like the IRS doesn't like situations that drift without proper resolution, but making the wrong choice quickly could be even more expensive than the original problem. Thank you to everyone who's shared their expertise and experiences. This has been incredibly educational for someone trying to understand these complex trust and tax issues. @Natasha Petrov, I really hope you'll update us on what you discover when you get that specialist consultation and current property appraisal!

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Nora Bennett

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@Amaya Watson, you've really summarized this complex discussion perfectly! As someone also completely new to estate planning, I'm amazed by how what seemed like a straightforward family situation has so many potential legal and tax landmines. The property appreciation factor that keeps coming up is really striking - it never occurred to me that real estate gains over more than a decade could completely change the math on what seems like a simple family transfer. Getting that current appraisal really does seem like the crucial first step before any decisions can be made. What I find most valuable is how this thread has highlighted the importance of finding attorneys who specialize specifically in expired QPRTs rather than just general estate planning. The questions @Natasha Kuznetsova suggested for interviewing potential attorneys were particularly helpful - asking about their specific experience with post-term QPRT situations and IRS audits in this area. The consensus seems clear that this isn t'a situation where you can afford to guess or delay indefinitely, but rushing into the wrong solution could be catastrophically expensive. With the father s'estate size and the upcoming exemption changes, the stakes are really high. This has been such an educational discussion for newcomers like us trying to understand these complex trust and tax issues!

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Kai Rivera

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As someone completely new to estate planning and trust issues, this discussion has been incredibly enlightening! I had no idea how complex these QPRT situations could become after expiration. What really stands out to me from all the expert advice shared here is how the "simple" solution of transferring the property back to your father could actually create much larger tax problems than maintaining the rental structure. The property appreciation since 2013 seems to be the critical factor - if we're looking at significant value increases, the gift tax implications could be enormous and might actually worsen his estate tax situation rather than improving it. I'm particularly struck by several key points that emerged: the importance of getting a current property appraisal before making any decisions, having the original QPRT documents thoroughly reviewed for provisions that might provide additional options, and finding a tax attorney who specializes specifically in expired QPRTs rather than general estate planning. The consensus seems clear that this requires immediate professional attention but careful analysis before rushing into any solution. With your father's $7.5M estate and the upcoming exemption reduction, the stakes are really high here. Thank you to everyone who shared their expertise and experiences - this has been an invaluable learning experience for someone trying to understand these complex trust and tax matters. @Natasha Petrov, I hope you'll keep us updated on what you discover through the specialist consultation process!

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Nathan Dell

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As someone relatively new to handling these complex NOL calculations, this entire discussion has been incredibly enlightening. I've been reading through everyone's approaches and taking detailed notes on the methodologies shared. I'm currently working with a client who has 2020 NOLs (which I understand are subject to special CARES Act rules), Social Security benefits, and some Schedule C income. After reading through this thread, I realize I need to be much more systematic about the iterative calculations between the NOL limitation and Social Security taxable amounts. One thing I'm still unclear on: for the 2020 NOLs specifically, are they subject to the 80% limitation for 2022 tax year applications, or do they still maintain some of the CARES Act flexibility? I want to make sure I'm applying the correct limitation rules before I start building my calculation worksheet. Also, I really appreciate the emphasis everyone has placed on documentation. Creating detailed worksheets showing each iteration step seems essential not just for accuracy but for audit defense. The tracking schedules for NOL carryforwards that several practitioners mentioned are definitely something I need to implement in my practice. Thank you all for such a comprehensive discussion of this challenging topic. The collaborative knowledge sharing here is exactly what helps practitioners like me build confidence in handling these intricate scenarios!

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Chloe Harris

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Welcome @a12ea73d087e! Great question about 2020 NOLs - this is definitely a source of confusion. For 2022 tax returns, NOLs arising in 2020 are back to the 80% limitation rule. The CARES Act temporarily suspended the 80% limitation, but that relief only applied to carrybacks to pre-2021 tax years and carryforwards to 2020. So your 2020 NOLs will be subject to the 80% limitation when applied on your client's 2022 return, and you'll need to go through the same iterative calculation with Social Security benefits that everyone has been discussing. For your client with Schedule C income, don't forget that this might also generate QBI deductions which add another layer to the iterative calculations. The QBI limitation is also based on taxable income, so it interacts with both the NOL deduction and Social Security calculations. Your emphasis on systematic documentation is spot-on. I'd recommend starting with Omar's 5-step approach and creating a worksheet that shows each iteration until the numbers converge. Keep detailed notes about your methodology - you'll thank yourself later if questions arise! This thread has been such a great learning resource for all of us dealing with these complex scenarios. Good luck with your calculation!

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As a newcomer to this community, I want to express my gratitude for this incredibly thorough discussion! I've been struggling with NOL calculations involving Social Security benefits for months, and this thread has provided exactly the guidance I needed. I'm currently dealing with a client who has both 2019 and 2021 NOL carryforwards, Social Security benefits, and some pension income. After reading through everyone's methodologies, I now understand that I need to apply these NOLs chronologically (2019 first, then 2021) with the 2019 NOLs having no 80% limitation while the 2021 NOLs are subject to the 80% restriction. What's particularly helpful is the emphasis on the iterative calculation approach. I was making the mistake of applying the NOL limitation once and calling it done, not realizing that the reduced taxable income would change the Social Security inclusion percentage, which then affects the overall taxable income calculation. I plan to start with Omar's 5-step methodology and implement Alice's convergence tolerance approach to prevent endless minor adjustments. The documentation strategies everyone has shared - particularly maintaining detailed NOL tracking schedules and showing key iteration rounds - are practices I definitely need to adopt. For other newcomers reading this thread, the consensus seems clear: master the manual calculations first to understand the mechanics, then consider automated tools as time-savers. The complexity of these calculations really demands that foundational understanding. Thank you to everyone who contributed their expertise - this collaborative knowledge sharing is invaluable for building confidence in handling these challenging scenarios!

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Welcome to the community @999b88a9aaea! Your situation with both 2019 and 2021 NOL carryforwards is a perfect example of why the chronological sequencing is so critical. You've got it exactly right - the 2019 NOLs get applied first with no 80% limitation, then the 2021 NOLs with the 80% restriction. One thing to keep in mind with your client's pension income: unlike Social Security benefits, pension income doesn't have the same variable inclusion percentage, so it won't create the same circular calculation issues. However, it will still affect your overall taxable income base for calculating the 80% NOL limitation on the 2021 carryforwards. I'd suggest creating a multi-step worksheet: first apply the 2019 NOLs (which might eliminate most or all of the taxable income), then if there's remaining taxable income, go through the iterative process for the 2021 NOLs with the Social Security recalculation. This sequential approach should help you avoid some of the complexity that comes with multiple NOL layers. The manual calculation mastery approach you're planning is definitely the right way to go. Once you've worked through a few of these cases by hand, the logic becomes much clearer and you'll be better equipped to spot issues even when using automated tools later. Best of luck with your calculations!

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Sienna Gomez

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One additional consideration that hasn't been mentioned - you'll need to track personal vs business mileage meticulously. Even with a legitimate rental arrangement, the IRS will want to see that you're not double-dipping on deductions. If you're "renting" your car from your LLC but then trying to deduct business mileage for work trips, that could be problematic. The LLC would typically be responsible for all vehicle-related deductions (maintenance, depreciation, insurance) while you pay rental fees, but you can't also claim mileage deductions as an individual. Also worth considering: if your LLC owns the vehicles, you'll need to transfer titles, which may trigger sales tax in some states and could affect your ability to get favorable personal auto loan rates in the future. The vehicles would also become business assets subject to potential creditor claims if the LLC faces any liability issues. The administrative complexity really adds up quickly, and that's before you even get to the tax implications others have mentioned.

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Ethan Clark

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This is a really important point about the mileage deduction issue that I hadn't considered. So essentially, if the LLC owns the car and I'm paying rental fees, I can't also claim business mileage as an individual taxpayer - it would have to be one or the other? The title transfer triggering sales tax is another cost I didn't factor in. Between that, the commercial insurance, potential sales tax registration, and all the administrative overhead everyone's mentioned, it's starting to look like the actual tax benefits would be pretty minimal after accounting for all the legitimate costs of running this as a real business. Thanks for bringing up the creditor liability aspect too - I hadn't thought about how putting personal vehicles into an LLC might expose them to business creditors if something went wrong. That's definitely a risk I need to weigh carefully.

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Exactly right on the mileage deduction issue - it's an either/or situation, not both. If the LLC owns the vehicle and you're paying rental fees, then the LLC gets to claim all the vehicle-related deductions (depreciation, maintenance, insurance, etc.) while you pay market-rate rental fees. You can't then turn around and also claim business mileage deductions on your personal return for using that same vehicle. The title transfer sales tax can be substantial depending on your state - some charge the full rate on the vehicle's current value, which could easily be thousands of dollars. And yes, once the vehicles are LLC assets, they become part of the business's balance sheet and could potentially be reached by business creditors. Given all these factors - the commercial insurance costs, sales tax implications, administrative burden, audit risk, and the need for genuine third-party rental activity - most people find that a simple mileage log for legitimate business use ends up being far more cost-effective than trying to create a rental arrangement with their own LLC. The complexity and costs usually outweigh the potential tax benefits unless you're genuinely building a rental car business.

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This thread has been incredibly eye-opening about all the hidden complexities and costs involved in this type of arrangement. As someone who was initially attracted to the idea of maximizing vehicle deductions, I'm now realizing that the administrative burden and compliance costs would likely eat up most of the tax savings. The combination of commercial insurance premiums (potentially $3000-5000+ annually), sales tax on title transfers, ongoing sales tax collection and remittance, business licensing requirements, and the need for genuine third-party rental activity to avoid IRS scrutiny makes this far more complicated than I initially thought. Plus the audit risk factor is concerning - even if structured correctly, related-party transactions are automatic red flags that could lead to expensive professional fees and time-consuming documentation requests. For most people in similar situations, it sounds like the traditional approach of keeping detailed mileage logs for legitimate business use and claiming the standard mileage deduction is probably the more practical and cost-effective route. Sometimes the simplest solution really is the best one. Thanks to everyone who shared their experiences and insights - this discussion definitely saved me from making a costly mistake!

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Eduardo Silva

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As a newcomer to this community, I have to say this discussion has been incredibly eye-opening! I came in thinking this was a simple choice between two vehicles, but reading through everyone's experiences has shown me just how many layers of complexity are involved in business vehicle tax planning. The progression from the basic Section 179 explanation to the nuanced discussions about AMT implications, state conformity issues, S-corp basis limitations, and documentation requirements really illustrates why this decision requires careful analysis rather than just looking at the headline tax benefits. What I find most valuable is seeing the real-world experiences - like @Benjamin Johnson's basis limitation surprise and @Lucas Kowalski's point about making sure the vehicle actually fits your business needs first. It's clear that while the tax benefits can be substantial, there are numerous ways things can go wrong if you don't properly plan for all the variables. @Sean O'Donnell, based on everything discussed here, it seems like your decision between the luxury sedan and heavy SUV really depends on factors beyond just the initial tax deduction - your specific S-corp basis situation, California's state tax treatment (if applicable), your actual business driving patterns, and your ability to maintain proper documentation over time. Given the complexity revealed in this thread and the $135k at stake, I'd strongly echo the advice about getting comprehensive professional guidance before making your final decision. The investment in proper tax planning upfront could save significant headaches and money down the road!

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@Eduardo Silva You ve'really captured the evolution of this discussion perfectly! As someone who s'been lurking in this community for a while but just starting my own business, this thread has been like a masterclass in business vehicle tax planning. What struck me most is how the initial question seemed straightforward - which "vehicle gives better tax deductions? -" but quickly revealed itself to be much more nuanced. The interplay between all these different tax provisions, entity structures, and compliance requirements is honestly overwhelming for someone new to business ownership. @Sean O Donnell'I hope you re'still following along because this thread has essentially created a comprehensive checklist of everything you need to consider: federal vs state tax implications, S-corp basis limitations, AMT effects, documentation requirements, financing considerations, and long-term cost analysis including fuel and insurance. One thing that really resonates with me from reading everyone s'experiences is that the best "tax" strategy seems highly dependent on individual circumstances. What works brilliantly for one person s'situation could be a disaster for another s.'As a newcomer, I m'definitely bookmarking this entire discussion for future reference. The collective wisdom shared here - from the technical tax details to the practical implementation challenges - is incredibly valuable for anyone facing similar decisions. Thanks to everyone who took the time to share their real-world experiences and insights!

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Andre Dupont

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As a newcomer to this community, I have to say this has been one of the most comprehensive and educational discussions I've ever seen on business vehicle tax strategy! Reading through everyone's real-world experiences has completely changed my understanding of what initially seemed like a straightforward decision. What really stands out to me is how this thread demonstrates the importance of looking beyond just the headline tax benefits. @Sean O'Donnell, your original question about the difference between over/under 6000 pound vehicle deductions has evolved into a masterclass covering AMT implications, state conformity issues, S-corp basis limitations, documentation requirements, and total cost of ownership analysis. The practical insights shared here are invaluable - from @Angelina Farar's GPS tracking recommendations to @Benjamin Johnson's basis limitation surprise to @GalacticGladiator's professional perspective on audit risks. It's clear that while the Section 179 and bonus depreciation benefits for heavy SUVs can be substantial, there are numerous potential pitfalls that require careful planning. For anyone else considering this decision, this discussion has created an excellent framework: 1) Verify your S-corp basis can support the deduction, 2) Research your state's conformity with federal depreciation rules, 3) Calculate total cost of ownership including fuel and insurance, 4) Ensure the vehicle genuinely fits your business needs, 5) Plan for rigorous documentation from day one, and 6) Get comprehensive professional guidance given the complexity and stakes involved. Thanks to everyone who shared their experiences - this is exactly the kind of practical wisdom that makes these communities so valuable!

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