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I'm a tax preparer (not a CPA, but I do this professionally) and see this issue a lot. The discrepancy is almost certainly about different starting points for state vs federal income. Most states start with your federal AGI and then make adjustments, but some states have their own definition of income that might be closer to your Social Security wages (boxes 3/5) than your federal wages (box 1). Without knowing your state, I can't tell you which software is correct, but I'd recommend: 1. Look at the actual forms each software is generating, not just the final numbers 2. Check your state's tax department website for info on how they define taxable income 3. If you contributed to retirement accounts, that's often where the difference shows up Don't just pick the one with the better outcome - the IRS and state tax authorities share data, so discrepancies will eventually be flagged.
Thank you for this detailed explanation! I checked both forms like you suggested and found that H&R Block was adding back in my 401k contributions for state purposes while TaxSlayer wasn't. After checking my state's website, turns out H&R Block is doing it correctly - my state doesn't allow 401k deductions the same way federal does. Makes sense now why the numbers were different. Really appreciate your help!
You're welcome! I'm glad you were able to track down the difference. The 401k contribution adjustment is one of the most common causes of this exact discrepancy. Different states handle retirement contributions very differently - some follow federal rules, while others tax them differently. Now that you know, you can also check if there are any state-specific credits or deductions you might qualify for that neither software automatically found. Many states have unique credits that people miss because tax software doesn't always prompt for them.
Why are taxes so complicated?? It makes no sense that two supposedly professional tax software programs give totally different results. How is the average person supposed to know which one is right?? š” Seriously considering just paying an accountant next year even though I've always done my own taxes. This is giving me a headache.
I switched to using an accountant three years ago and it was the best decision ever. Yes, it costs more than tax software, but my accountant has saved me way more than her fee each year by finding deductions and credits I didn't know about. Plus she handles any weird situations like this so I don't have to stress about it.
Just want to share my experience as a church financial administrator. There are two different scenarios for church employees: 1) If the church participates in FICA (like OP's does), the employer and employee each pay half of Social Security and Medicare taxes, just like any other job. The employee files taxes normally with their W-2. 2) If the church opts OUT of FICA, the employee still gets a W-2 but must pay self-employment taxes using Schedule SE if they earn over $108.28 for the year. Ministers have completely different rules though! They're always considered self-employed for Social Security/Medicare purposes, even if they get a W-2.
Wait, I'm confused about ministers. My husband is a youth pastor with a W-2, but the church takes out income tax AND social security/medicare. Does he still need to pay self-employment tax?
For your husband's situation, it depends on whether he's officially ordained, licensed, or commissioned as a minister. If he is, then the church shouldn't be withholding Social Security and Medicare - ministers are exempt from FICA withholding and must pay self-employment tax regardless of W-2 status. If your husband is not officially considered a minister for tax purposes but just a regular church employee, and the church is withholding FICA taxes, then he files like a normal employee and doesn't need to pay self-employment tax.
Does anyone know if church employees can opt out of paying Social Security taxes altogether? I heard some religious workers can file for exemption.
Regular church employees cannot opt out of Social Security taxes. The exemption you're thinking of only applies to ministers, members of religious orders, and Christian Science practitioners who file Form 4361 for exemption based on religious opposition to public insurance. To qualify, they must be conscientiously opposed to receiving public insurance benefits and must belong to a religious organization that provides care for its dependent members.
Something nobody's mentioned yet - watch out for the self-rental rules if your LLC owns any property that's being used by the business. When you create this parent-subsidiary relationship, it can trigger some complicated tax implications for rental payments between your entities. Had this bite me last year and ended up having to amend returns.
That's a really good point I hadn't considered. My first LLC does own the building where we operate. Would the self-rental rules apply even after the restructuring since I'd still be the ultimate owner through the second LLC?
Yes, the self-rental rules would still apply even after restructuring. The IRS looks at the ultimate ownership when determining whether these rules kick in. Since you'd still be the ultimate owner of both entities (you own the second LLC which owns the first LLC), any rental payments between them would be subject to scrutiny. The main thing to be aware of is that rental income in this situation is typically treated as non-passive, regardless of your level of participation. This means you can't use these rental losses to offset other passive income. It can significantly impact your tax planning if you were counting on those losses.
I actually did this exact restructuring last year. Made my first LLC (manufacturing business) owned by my second LLC (holding company). The key thing I learned: you MUST pay yourself reasonable compensation if you put yourself on payroll! I tried to be cute with a low salary and high distributions and got a nasty letter from the IRS.
What ratio did you end up using between salary and distributions that the IRS was ok with? I've heard everything from 50/50 to 70/30 but never from someone who actually went through an IRS review.
This happened to me a couple years ago. Check if your employer correctly adjusted your tax withholding after your raise. Mine didn't, and I got hit with a huge bill. The higher your income goes, the more you need to pay attention to withholding. I'd recommend filling out a new W-4 form and submitting it to your HR department ASAP so this doesn't happen again next year. You might even want to add a little extra withholding to cover the difference.
Is there some calculator you can use to figure out the right withholding amount? I always struggle with this and either get a huge refund or end up owing.
Yes, the IRS has a Tax Withholding Estimator on their website that's pretty accurate. Just google "IRS withholding calculator" and it should be the first result. You'll need your most recent pay stub and tax return handy when you use it. The calculator will tell you exactly how to fill out your W-4 based on your specific situation. It even lets you adjust whether you want a bigger refund or more money in each paycheck. I use it every time I get a raise or my life circumstances change, and it's kept my tax bill/refund pretty balanced.
Have you looked at the actual tax brackets for both years? With $202k income for married filing jointly, part of your income is definitely getting taxed at 24% now. The difference between 22% and 24% brackets might not seem like much, but applied to thousands of dollars it adds up fast. Also check your pay stubs to see if your employer is withholding at the correct rate. Sometimes payroll systems don't automatically adjust withholding when you get promoted.
Exactly this. I work in payroll and see this all the time. Payroll systems calculate withholding based on the assumption that each check is what you'll make all year. So if you get a raise midyear, the system doesn't know about your previous lower income months and doesn't withhold enough.
That's a great point about midyear raises. The payroll system treats each check as if you've been making that amount all year, which can lead to significant underwithholding. This is especially true for bonuses or people who get promoted partway through the tax year.
AstroAdventurer
Just my two cents on this - I went with a Ford Transit Connect van instead of a minivan for my business for this exact reason. It's classified as a truck for tax purposes which makes Section 179 deduction much clearer. Similar cargo capacity to the Odyssey but designed specifically as a work vehicle.
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Zara Rashid
ā¢How's the Transit Connect working out for you? I looked at those too but thought they were a bit small for my needs. Do you ever have issues with the cargo space compared to a full size minivan?
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AstroAdventurer
ā¢It's been perfect for my needs. The cargo space is actually really well designed - more practical than a minivan because it's squared off with a flat floor. I can fit way more equipment in it than I could in my previous Sienna because of how the space is configured. The higher roof version gives you surprising vertical space too. Fuel economy has been great (averaging about 25-28 mpg) and maintenance costs are lower than my previous vehicle. The tax classification alone made it worth it - no questions about deduction eligibility since it's clearly a purpose-built business vehicle.
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Andre Dupont
Something no one's mentioned yet - if you go with the Odyssey and can't take the full Section 179, you can still deduct the business percentage of actual expenses (gas, insurance, maintenance, depreciation) OR take the standard mileage rate (65.5 cents per mile for 2023). Might end up being better in the long run anyway.
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Zoe Papanikolaou
ā¢That's what I do with my Sienna. I'm about 60% business and 40% personal, so I just track all expenses meticulously and deduct the business percentage. Over 5 years I've probably come out ahead compared to Section 179 anyway, especially with the reduced depreciation rates for vehicles. Just make sure you have a dedicated mileage log app or notebook!
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