Social Security Administration

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Social Security earnings limit confusion - monthly vs. yearly limits for survivor benefits

I started receiving survivor benefits in July 2024 after my husband passed last year. When I applied, I told SSA I would be working part-time at my sister's flower shop. I clearly remember telling them my expected yearly income would be around $28,000. They withheld my first 4 months of payments based on this info. Fast forward to November - I just got this form asking for updated income estimates and wanting to know which specific months I earned over $2,270! This caught me completely off guard because nobody ever mentioned a MONTHLY earnings limit during my application. The rep only discussed a YEARLY limit of around $23,040. I visited my local office yesterday hoping to sort this out since I'm actually earning less than expected (around $24,500) and plan to fully retire next year. The rep told me I'm going to owe money back for any month I earned above the monthly limit, regardless of my total yearly earnings being lower than expected. He called these "overpayments." I'm totally confused and worried now. 1. Do I really have to repay benefits for months where I exceeded the monthly limit, even though my yearly total will be under what I originally estimated? 2. Will the 4 months of benefits they initially withheld offset any of this supposed overpayment? 3. What's my best approach moving forward? Should I just complete that form and prepare to pay back some benefits? Any advice would be greatly appreciated - I feel like this monthly limit thing was sprung on me out of nowhere!

The monthly earnings test is so frustrating! My mom went through this exact situation last year with her survivor benefits. One thing no one has mentioned yet - if you're close to your Full Retirement Age, the earnings limits are different. If you'll reach FRA in 2025, the monthly limit is much higher (around $6,000/month for 2024). Also, be aware that they sometimes apply different rules depending on whether you're self-employed or a regular employee. Are you a W-2 employee at your sister's shop or considered self-employed? This can affect how they count your earnings. As others mentioned, definitely request that those 4 withheld months be applied to any overpayment. This is your right but sometimes gets overlooked unless you specifically ask for it.

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I'm a W-2 employee at my sister's shop, not self-employed. And unfortunately I'm only 58, so I'm not close to my FRA yet. I'll definitely make sure to specifically request that those withheld months be applied to any overpayment. Thank you!

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I want to add one more important point that hasn't been mentioned yet: Since you're planning to fully retire in 2025, you should submit a new estimate of zero earnings for 2025 as soon as possible. This will prevent SSA from withholding any benefits next year. Also, make sure you understand the difference between the Annual Earnings Test and the Monthly Earnings Test: - Monthly Test: Only applies in your first year receiving benefits. Any month you earn over the limit ($2,270 for 2024), you don't receive benefits for that month. - Annual Test: Applies every year until you reach Full Retirement Age. For every $2 you earn above the annual limit ($23,040 for 2024), SSA withholds $1 in benefits. The good news is that these withheld benefits aren't lost forever. Once you reach FRA, SSA recalculates your benefit amount to give credit for months benefits were withheld.

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Thank you for explaining the difference between the monthly and annual tests so clearly. I'll definitely submit that updated estimate of zero earnings for 2025 right away. It's a relief to know that even if some benefits are withheld now, they'll be factored back in once I reach FRA.

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One strategy some people use is to file at 62 if they anticipate working less in the coming years. For example, if you're planning to go part-time at 63, it might make sense to file at 62, have some benefits withheld the first year, then start collecting when your income drops below the threshold. This works best if: 1. You're planning to reduce work hours soon after 62 2. You want to retire before FRA but after 62 3. Your life expectancy is uncertain due to health concerns Just remember the reduction is permanent - the adjustment at FRA only accounts for months benefits were completely withheld, not the early claiming reduction itself.

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Another important consideration is tax efficiency in retirement planning. If you're still working full-time at a good salary, adding Social Security income could push you into a higher tax bracket. Up to 85% of your Social Security benefits become taxable when your combined income exceeds certain thresholds. For 2025, if your combined income (adjusted gross income + nontaxable interest + half of SS benefits) exceeds $34,000 (single) or $44,000 (married filing jointly), 85% of your benefits are subject to income tax. So claiming early while working could not only reduce your lifetime benefit but also result in higher taxes during those working years compared to waiting until you've stopped working or reduced your hours.

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The tax angle is something I hadn't considered at all! Since I'm making $85K now, adding Social Security on top would definitely push me into that 85% taxable range. So I'd essentially be taking a reduced benefit AND paying more taxes on it. Waiting is sounding better and better. Thanks everyone for helping me understand this. I was focused on that earnings test adjustment without seeing the bigger picture. I think I'll definitely wait until at least my FRA before filing.

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To directly answer your questions: 1. Yes, your SSDI benefit amount is your PIA (Primary Insurance Amount) 2. Yes, you can receive a "top-up" spousal benefit but only if 50% of your husband's PIA exceeds your own PIA 3. Yes, your husband must file for his own benefits before you can receive any spousal benefits, even though you're on SSDI If your husband delays until 70, you won't be able to receive any spousal benefits until he files. This creates a dilemma for many couples - maximize one spouse's benefit by delaying, or file earlier so the disabled spouse can receive the spousal portion sooner. I recommend scheduling an appointment with SSA to get benefit estimates based on different filing scenarios. This will help you make the best decision for your specific situation.

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Thank you for breaking it down so clearly! I've been trying to get an appointment with SSA for weeks but can't even get through on the phone. I'll keep trying though - we definitely need to understand the exact numbers to make a good decision.

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One more thing - when you do reach your full retirement age, nothing really changes with your benefit. Your SSDI simply converts to retirement benefits automatically, but the amount stays exactly the same. The only difference is that after FRA, the earnings limits no longer apply if you were to work.

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That's good to know! I don't plan to return to work, but it's helpful to understand how the transition works. Thanks for that additional info!

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THE SSA MAKES SO MANY MISTAKES!! My neighbor lost 4 months of benefits bcuz they didn't record her call properly! DOCUMENT EVERYTHING and don't trust what they tell you on the phone!!!!

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That's absolutely terrifying. It makes me wonder how many people are silently losing benefits they're entitled to because they don't know how to navigate this system. I'm getting really worried about my own filing now.

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Just to add some reassurance: while documentation is definitely important, the SSA does generally honor protective filing dates even if there's a scheduling delay. The system is designed to protect claimants' rights to benefits from first contact. One additional tip: if your sister wants to be extra cautious, she can start (but not necessarily complete) the online application process. This creates a definitive electronic record of intent to file with a timestamp, which can serve as backup documentation for her protective filing date.

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This is good advice, but my experience shows it's not 100% reliable. I started an online application AND called, and they still initially claimed to have no record of my intent to file. It took multiple calls and escalation to a supervisor to get it resolved. The system is overwhelmed right now, and mistakes happen more than they should. Belt and suspenders approach is definitely warranted.

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Has anyone tried growing lavender? I heard it's really profitable and easy to grow!

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This thread is about Social Security implications of a small business, not gardening tips. Please stay on topic and create a new thread if you want to discuss profitable plants.

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To answer your follow-up question about reporting: You should report changes to SSA when they happen, not just at tax time. You can report changes in work activity or earnings by calling SSA directly, visiting your local office, or in some cases through your my Social Security account online. Given that you're close to your FRA (66 and 4 months), it's worth noting that in the year you reach FRA, the rules become more lenient. For 2025, in the months before you reach FRA during your FRA year, the exempt amount increases to $59,520, and SSA only deducts $1 for every $3 you earn above the limit. Once you reach your FRA in August 2026, the earnings test no longer applies, and you can earn any amount without affecting your benefits.

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That's such a relief! I had no idea the rules were different in the year you reach FRA. So it sounds like even if I expand my little flower business a bit next year, I'll still be well under that higher threshold. I'm going to call SSA to confirm all this for my specific situation. Thanks again for the help!

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