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Has anyone dealt with clients who opted in to PTE tax mid-year? My client made the election in October 2024 for the 2024 tax year, but we had already been making quarterly distributions based on prior treatment. Trying to figure out how to retroactively adjust those distributions in the books vs. tax treatment.
We've handled this by treating it as a reclassification of prior distributions rather than a new distribution. So the quarterly distributions stay the same from a cash flow perspective, but on the final financials, you reclass the appropriate portion as "PTE tax" rather than "distributions" for the full year presentation. Then follow the same M-1/M-2 treatment others described above.
This is exactly the type of complex book-tax difference that trips up even experienced practitioners! I've been dealing with similar PTE tax issues across multiple states this season. One thing I'd add to the excellent advice already given - make sure you're documenting the treatment clearly in your workpapers. I create a separate schedule that shows the flow: 1) Book treatment (distribution), 2) Tax treatment (deduction), 3) M-1 adjustment (add back), 4) M-2 offset (other addition to AAA). This helps during reviews and if you ever get questioned. Also, don't forget to consider the impact on each shareholder's basis calculations. The PTE tax deduction flows through and increases their basis, while the book distribution treatment doesn't affect basis at all. So you need to make sure the K-1 preparation reflects the tax treatment, not the book treatment, for basis purposes. For states like California and New York that have different timing rules for the PTE tax election, this gets even more complicated. Each state may require slightly different book-tax reconciliation approaches.
This is really helpful documentation advice! I'm definitely going to start creating that separate schedule you mentioned. Quick question - when you say the PTE tax deduction increases shareholder basis, does this apply even when the entity treated it as a distribution for book purposes? I want to make sure I'm not missing something on the K-1 flow-through effects. Also, do you have any experience with how this interacts with debt basis for shareholders who have loans to the S-corp? I'm wondering if the deduction increasing basis could affect the order of basis restoration.
This has been a really helpful thread! I've learned so much about asset classifications that I never knew before. As someone who's been doing my own taxes for years, I always just focused on reporting income and deductions without thinking about how the IRS actually classifies the underlying assets. The explanation about bank accounts being intangible because they represent a claim against the bank rather than physical currency really clicked for me. And I appreciate everyone sharing their experiences with different tools and services - it's good to know there are resources out there when the IRS publications get too confusing or when you can't get through on the phone. One follow-up question though: does this classification affect anything for people who have joint bank accounts? Is the intangible asset considered to be owned 50/50 by each person, or does it depend on whose name is listed first or who deposited the money?
Great question about joint accounts! For tax purposes, the IRS typically treats joint bank accounts based on the ownership structure specified when the account was opened. Most joint accounts are "joint tenants with right of survivorship" which means each person legally owns 100% of the account, not 50/50. However, for tax reporting purposes, if both account holders are contributing income to the account, the IRS generally expects each person to report the interest income proportional to their contribution to the account balance. So if you put in 60% of the money and your spouse put in 40%, you'd typically report 60% of any interest earned. The classification as an intangible asset doesn't change just because it's jointly owned - it's still considered an intangible asset representing a claim against the bank. The joint ownership just means that multiple people have that claim. This can get complex in situations like divorce or estate planning, which is why it's often worth consulting a tax professional if you have significant joint assets.
This discussion has been really enlightening! I work in financial planning and often get questions about asset classifications from clients. What I find helpful to explain is that the IRS classification system is designed around the legal nature of what you actually own, not just the practical experience. When you have cash in a bank account, you're not actually owning specific dollar bills sitting in a vault with your name on them. You own a contractual right - essentially an IOU from the bank. That's why it's intangible. The bank has commingled your deposit with everyone else's and invested it, lent it out, etc. Your "asset" is really just the bank's legal obligation to pay you back on demand. This is also why FDIC insurance exists - because if the bank fails, your claim is against the FDIC, not against any specific physical money. It's all about the legal structure of ownership rather than what it feels like day-to-day when you're using your debit card or writing checks. For most people filing standard tax returns, this distinction won't directly impact your filing, but understanding it helps explain why certain financial products and accounts are treated differently by the IRS.
This explanation really helps put it all in perspective! As someone new to understanding these tax classifications, I appreciate how you broke down the legal vs. practical aspects. It's fascinating that something as simple as putting money in the bank actually changes the fundamental nature of what you own from a legal standpoint. I never thought about how FDIC insurance essentially proves that we don't own specific physical dollars - we own a promise that gets backed by the government if the bank fails. This makes me wonder about other financial products I use. Would something like a money market account or CD also be considered intangible assets since they're similar contractual arrangements with financial institutions? And what about digital payment apps like Venmo or PayPal - are those balances also intangible assets representing claims against those companies?
I'm still confused about one thing - if I have wash sales throughout the year but close out ALL my positions by December 31st and don't rebuy for 30+ days, do I still get to claim all my net losses for the year?
Yes, that's correct. If you close all positions by year-end and don't repurchase the same or substantially identical securities within 30 days (including into January of the next year), then all your disallowed losses would be recognized in the current tax year. This is a common strategy for active traders - completely exit positions in securities where you've taken losses by year-end and stay out for at least 30 days. This ensures you don't push losses into the next tax year.
As someone who went through this exact same confusion last year, I can tell you that you're likely overthinking it. With $54k in gains and $49k in losses, you're probably looking at paying taxes on roughly your $5k net profit, not the full $54k. The wash sale rule doesn't eliminate your losses - it just defers them by adding them to the cost basis of your replacement shares. Since you're day trading the same stock constantly, those adjusted cost bases are getting realized when you sell those shares throughout the year. The real trap is if you have significant wash sale losses at year-end that carry into January. That's when you could get stuck paying taxes on gains while having your losses deferred to next year. My advice: Track your actual realized gains/losses carefully (not just the gross numbers), and if you're worried, consider using one of the software tools mentioned above to get a clearer picture of your true tax situation. Don't panic - you're probably in better shape than you think!
This is really reassuring to hear from someone who's been through it! I'm curious though - when you say "track your actual realized gains/losses carefully," what's the best way to do that? Are you talking about keeping a separate spreadsheet beyond what the broker provides, or is there a specific method you found worked well for distinguishing between gross trades and the actual tax impact after wash sales?
I'm confused about something - doesn't the 2-year ownership and use test apply regardless of this non-qualified use issue? Like if you move back and live there for 2 years before selling, wouldn't you qualify for the exclusion anyway? I've been trying to understand this for my own situation.
The 2-year ownership and use test is just one part of qualifying for the Section 121 exclusion. The non-qualified use rules (added in 2008) create an additional limitation. While you do need to meet the 2-year test, the exclusion can be limited based on the ratio of non-qualified use periods to total ownership. However, the exception the original poster is asking about is important - periods after you've used the home as a principal residence are NOT considered periods of non-qualified use. That's why their situation is actually more favorable than their CPA might have indicated. Since they lived there for 5 years initially, then let a relative stay without charging rent, they should be able to qualify for the full exclusion after moving back for 2 years.
This is a really complex situation, and I appreciate everyone sharing their experiences and insights. As someone who's dealt with similar Section 121 exclusion questions, I want to emphasize how important it is to get this right given the significant tax implications. From what I understand about your situation, the key issue is whether the 17 years your brother-in-law lived there would count as "non-qualified use." Based on the responses here, it sounds like since you weren't charging rent and this was a family arrangement, those years likely wouldn't count against you under the non-qualified use rules. However, given that you're looking at a $675k gain with only $500k in potential exclusion, I'd strongly recommend getting a second opinion from a tax professional who specializes in real estate transactions. The difference between 25% exclusion and full exclusion that's been discussed here could save you tens of thousands of dollars. Also, make sure to document everything about the arrangement with your brother-in-law - even informal family arrangements should be properly documented in case the IRS has questions later. The fact that he paid property taxes directly actually seems to support that this was a family care arrangement rather than a rental situation.
This is excellent advice, Miguel. I'm new to this community but have been following this discussion closely as I'm potentially facing a similar situation with a property I inherited from my grandmother. The documentation point you made really resonates with me. Even though these family arrangements feel informal, having proper records could make all the difference if the IRS ever questions the nature of the arrangement. I'm now thinking I should retroactively document the informal agreement I had with my cousin who's been living in my grandmother's house. One question for the group - when you say "document everything," are we talking about formal written agreements, or would things like family emails and text messages discussing the arrangement be sufficient? I'm trying to understand what level of documentation would actually be helpful in a situation like this. Thanks to everyone who's shared their experiences here. This discussion has been incredibly valuable for understanding these complex tax rules!
Amina Toure
Just to add another perspective - I've been running my LLC for about 3 years now and started exactly where you are. The transition from individual gig work to business income can feel overwhelming, but you're asking all the right questions. One thing that really helped me was opening a dedicated business checking account if you haven't already. Even though your LLC is a disregarded entity for tax purposes, having that separation makes tracking so much cleaner. I deposit all my DoorDash and contract payments there, then transfer a set amount to personal for living expenses. Also consider getting a business credit card for expenses like gas, phone bills, and car maintenance. It makes tracking deductions way easier at tax time, and you might get better rewards rates for business spending. The W-2 salary idea is smart for the future, but honestly, don't stress about it this first year. Focus on getting your bookkeeping systems solid and tracking all those deductible expenses. Once you're consistently profitable and the S-Corp election makes sense financially, you can always make that change later. Keep detailed records of everything - mileage, receipts, income sources. Your future self will thank you come tax season!
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Freya Andersen
β’This is exactly the kind of practical advice I needed! I actually just opened a business checking account last week but haven't been using it consistently for all my DoorDash deposits - I've been letting some go to my personal account out of habit. I'll start being more strict about that separation. The business credit card idea is brilliant too. I've been using my personal card for gas and car expenses then trying to sort it all out later, which is a nightmare. Having a dedicated card would make expense tracking so much simpler. You're right about not stressing too much about the S-Corp election this year. I think I was getting ahead of myself because I read about the potential tax savings, but it sounds like I should focus on getting the basics down first. Better to have clean books and understand the process before adding more complexity. Thanks for the reassurance that this overwhelming feeling is normal! Sometimes it feels like everyone else has it figured out and I'm just fumbling through.
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Talia Klein
You're definitely on the right track with your thinking! Since you formed your LLC in August, you can absolutely include all your post-formation DoorDash and 1099 editing income as business income. The key is consistency - treat these as legitimate business activities and maintain proper documentation. A few practical tips from someone who made this transition: 1. **Mileage tracking is crucial** - Use an app like MileIQ or Everlance to automatically track your DoorDash miles. This will be one of your biggest deductions. 2. **Business expense deductions** - Don't forget about phone bills (business use portion), car maintenance, tolls, parking fees, insulated bags, phone mounts, etc. These add up quickly. 3. **Quarterly estimated taxes** - With variable gig income, I recommend the "pay as you go" approach. Set aside 25-30% of each payment immediately into a separate tax savings account. This prevents the shock of owing thousands at tax time. 4. **S-Corp election timing** - You're smart to wait on this. Generally, it only makes sense when your business profit exceeds $40-60k annually due to the added compliance costs and complexity. 5. **Record keeping** - Get a dedicated business bank account if you haven't already, and consider a business credit card for expenses. This separation will save you hours during tax prep. The LLC structure gives you flexibility to grow into more complex tax strategies as your income increases. For now, focus on maximizing your legitimate business deductions and maintaining clean books!
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