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How to establish a 401K Profit Sharing Plan for my wife's S Corp medical practice?

My wife is a physician who owns 50% of a medical practice through her S Corporation. The practice is structured as an LLC with multiple doctor-owners who each operate through their own S Corps. Currently, the LLC pays her a guaranteed payment monthly, which goes to her S Corp and then to her via payroll with the appropriate taxes withheld. The LLC already handles her regular 401K contributions before the money reaches the S Corp. Our CPA recently mentioned we could get a substantial tax refund in 2025 if we contribute about 25% of her W-2 S Corp income to a profit-sharing plan. I'm not entirely clear on how to implement this - do I need to coordinate with the practice's current 401K administrators? Can I set this up independently through her S Corp? Would this require offering the profit-sharing option to all employees at the LLC level, which could get expensive? The whole reason for using the S Corp structure is that it allows each provider to manage their own finances efficiently without the entire group debating every expense (like hiring a scribe or picking up shifts at satellite clinics). The LLC handles core business functions, and profits are distributed according to their operating agreement. I know I should probably just ask our CPA these questions, but honestly, she's already explained various aspects of this structure to me multiple times, and I feel awkward asking for yet another explanation. Any guidance on getting started with this profit-sharing plan would be greatly appreciated!

Since this hasn't been mentioned yet - you should know that profit sharing contributions are completely discretionary year to year, which is incredibly valuable for professional practices with fluctuating income. Some years you can contribute the full 25%, other years you can reduce or skip it entirely depending on cash flow. Also, make sure the plan documents are properly amended to include the profit sharing component. This is something your plan administrator needs to handle formally - you can't just start making profit sharing contributions without updating the plan design. One thing your CPA might not have emphasized: the timing of cash flow matters. The S Corp needs sufficient profits distributed from the LLC to make these contributions. Planning the timing of distributions from LLC to S Corp becomes important if you want to maximize these retirement contributions while maintaining adequate operating capital.

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Thanks for this insight. The discretionary nature is really appealing since her income can vary quite a bit. Do you know if there's a deadline for deciding whether to make a profit sharing contribution for the current tax year? Like could we wait until March 2025 to decide about 2024 contributions?

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You can actually wait until your S Corp's tax filing deadline including extensions to make the profit sharing contribution for the prior year. So for 2024 contributions, if your S Corp files for an extension, you could have until September 15, 2025, to make the decision and the actual contribution. This flexibility is one of the biggest advantages of profit sharing plans for professionals with variable income. Just make sure the plan documents are amended before the end of the plan year in which you first want to make profit sharing contributions. The plan has to allow for profit sharing before you can actually make those contributions.

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Yara Haddad

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Wait, I'm confused about something! You said the LLC already handles your wife's regular 401K contribution before the money reaches the S Corp. Does that mean she's technically an employee of the LLC rather than the S Corp? Because that would change everything about how this works. If she's getting a W-2 from the S Corp (which it sounds like she is), then the LLC shouldn't be handling any 401k deductions - that should all be happening at the S Corp level. The way you described it sounds like there might be a potential compliance issue with how things are currently structured.

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Not necessarily a compliance issue. In many medical groups, the LLC sponsors the 401k plan but the participating doctors are technically employed by their own S Corps. The plan documents just need to specifically allow for this arrangement. It's super common in group practices.

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Another option worth exploring is a mega backdoor Roth if your employer plan allows after-tax (not Roth) contributions and in-service distributions or in-plan Roth conversions. The limits are much higher than regular backdoor Roth - you could potentially put away $40k+ extra beyond your regular 401k limit. Not all plans offer this though, so check with your HR or benefits department. The key words to ask about are "after-tax contributions" (different from Roth) and either "in-plan Roth conversions" or "in-service distributions.

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Omar Zaki

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Would I have to pay taxes on the conversion from after-tax to Roth though? I'm confused about how this is different from just doing a backdoor Roth IRA.

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You only pay taxes on the growth between the time you make the after-tax contribution and when you convert it to Roth. If you convert frequently (some plans even allow automatic conversions), this tax amount is minimal. The main difference from a backdoor Roth IRA is the amount you can contribute. A backdoor Roth IRA is limited to $7,000 per year (2025 limit for those under 50). With the mega backdoor Roth, you could potentially contribute up to around $43,500 more (the exact amount depends on your plan and the total annual 401k limit of $70,000 for 2025 minus your regular contributions and employer match).

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Chloe Taylor

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Something nobody has mentioned - simple taxable brokerage account might actually be better in some cases? I use one alongside my 401k. The benefits: no contribution limits, complete flexibility to withdraw anytime without penalties, and long-term capital gains tax rates (which are lower than ordinary income rates for most people). Plus you can tax-loss harvest during market downturns, which isn't possible in retirement accounts. Just buy tax-efficient ETFs that don't distribute much in dividends and hold long-term.

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Diego Flores

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Great point about the flexibility! But don't you lose a lot to taxes on dividends and capital gains compared to Roth growth that's completely tax-free?

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Lindsey Fry

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Don't forget about depreciation for bigger purchases! I made the mistake of incorrectly categorizing everything my first year. For items over $2,500, you might want to consider Section 179 deduction or bonus depreciation rather than just expensing them outright. For example, that desk you mentioned could potentially be depreciated over 7 years OR you could use Section 179 to deduct it all upfront. Same with expensive computers or other equipment. Also, keep track of any repairs vs. improvements to your home office space. Repairs can generally be deducted immediately (based on your home office percentage) while improvements might need to be depreciated.

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Is there a dollar threshold for when something should be depreciated vs just expensed? Like if my desk was only $300, do I still need to depreciate it or can I just deduct it all at once under supplies/furniture?

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Lindsey Fry

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There's actually a "de minimis safe harbor election" that lets you expense (rather than depreciate) items that cost less than $2,500 per item or invoice. So for your $300 desk, you could absolutely deduct it all at once instead of depreciating it over several years. Many small business owners don't know about this and end up creating unnecessary complexity by depreciating smaller items. For slightly larger purchases, Section 179 expensing is another great option that lets you deduct the full cost of qualifying equipment in the year you put it into service, rather than depreciating it. The limits are quite generous for small businesses (up to $1,160,000 for 2023).

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Kayla Morgan

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Did your accountant explain the difference between the regular method and simplified method for home office? The simplified method lets you deduct $5 per square foot (up to 300 sq ft) without tracking actual expenses. Might be easier than tracking all those utility percentages!

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James Maki

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Simplified method is WAY easier but usually results in a smaller deduction in my experience. I tracked both methods for two years and regular method gave me about $1,200 more in deductions. Depends on your situation though.

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Anyone try TaxAct? They have HSA forms and actually do efile for real. I've used them for years with no problems and they're cheaper than TurboTax. Just a suggestion for next year.

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Thanks for the recommendation! I've heard good things about TaxAct from a coworker too. Did you find their interface easy to use? I'm not super tax-savvy and need something that explains things clearly.

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Their interface is pretty straightforward and they explain tax concepts in plain English. They use a question-based approach that helps catch things like HSA contributions without you needing to know which specific forms are required. The help sections are quite clear with examples, and if you get stuck, they have decent customer support through chat. For someone who isn't tax-savvy, they offer good guidance without overwhelming you with jargon. Their review system also catches common errors before you file.

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I had a simular issue with that same software!!! They also missed my student loan interest deduction completely. I ended up disputing the charge with my credit card company and got a full refund. Then I used FreeTaxUSA which was actually free for federal filing and only $15 for state. They had all the right forms including 8889 for HSA stuff.

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FreeTaxUSA is such an underrated option. Been using them for 4 years now and they handle everything correctly including my rental property and side business. None of the upselling garbage that TurboTax does either.

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Leo Simmons

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I think everyone's missing something important here. Education expenses might be better deducted as business expenses on Schedule C rather than as work-related education deductions. If your wife's counseling practice is a legitimate business (which it sounds like it is), the doctoral program costs could be deductible as ordinary and necessary business expenses. Same goes for your accounting degree and the carwash business. The key is proper documentation showing how these educational expenses are ordinary and necessary for your CURRENT businesses. Keep detailed records of how specific courses directly relate to skills needed in your existing businesses. This approach has worked better for me than trying to use the education deductions, which have more limitations since the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.

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Lindsey Fry

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Can you explain more about how to document this? Like what kind of proof would you need to show the IRS that your education is "ordinary and necessary" for your business? I'm taking some digital marketing courses and want to deduct them for my Etsy shop.

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Leo Simmons

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Documentation is crucial. I keep a business education folder with: course descriptions/syllabi highlighting specific skills taught, a written explanation connecting each course to specific aspects of my current business operations, evidence that these skills are industry standards (like professional association recommendations), and a log tracking how I've implemented these skills in my business. For your digital marketing courses and Etsy shop, save the course descriptions, then create a document explaining how each marketing technique directly applies to growing your existing Etsy business. Track your marketing metrics before and after implementing what you learn to show business purpose. If similar businesses commonly use these marketing techniques, note that as evidence that the education is "ordinary" in your field.

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Has anyone mentioned the dollar limits here? Education expenses can add up FAST. My husband & I got hit with AMT (Alternative Minimum Tax) one year because our deductions were too high. Make sure you're looking at the big picture with all your deductions combined! Also something to consider - would these education expenses qualify for any tax CREDITS instead of deductions? Credits are usually worth more. Look into Lifetime Learning Credit if you haven't already.

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Kayla Morgan

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That's a really good point about credits vs deductions! I think business expense deductions don't have the same caps as education credits though? At least that was my understanding. Can you take BOTH the business education deduction AND education credits for the same expenses?

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