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Just a heads up that if ur state has a franchise tax for corporations (like California) you might still have to pay it even as an LLC electing corporate tax treatment. Learned this the hard way last year with my LLC lol. Check your state's specific rules!!!
Yep, this is critical. Texas has the same issue - my LLC that's taxed as an S-corp still has to file and pay franchise tax even though federally we're an S-corp. Cost me $3,500 I wasn't expecting my first year.
Something else to consider is if you ever want outside investors, many prefer traditional corps over LLCs. My tech startup started as an LLC taxed as a corp, but when we sought angel funding, we had to convert to a C-corp anyway. Investors didn't want pass-through tax consequences and preferred the standard shareholder structure. Just something to keep in mind if future funding is a possibility.
This is huge! We had to do the same thing. Our attorneys said converting from LLC to C-corp cost us an extra $11k in legal fees compared to if we'd just started as a C-corp. Depends on your longterm goals I guess.
22 Something nobody's mentioned is the "backdoor Roth" strategy that high-income folks use to get around the income limits. You contribute to a traditional IRA (which has no income limits for contributions), then immediately convert to Roth. There's tax implications but it's a common workaround.
11 Is that different from the mega backdoor Roth? I've heard about that one but don't fully understand it. Something about using your 401k?
22 Yes, they're different strategies. The regular backdoor Roth is what I described - contributing to a traditional IRA then converting to Roth when your income exceeds the limits for direct Roth contributions. The mega backdoor Roth involves making after-tax (not Roth) contributions to a 401(k) plan above the standard employee contribution limit, then either converting those to Roth inside the plan or rolling them over to a Roth IRA. It requires a 401(k) plan that specifically allows after-tax contributions and in-service distributions or rollovers. The potential contribution amounts are much larger - potentially up to $40,000+ per year depending on your plan's limits and your other contributions.
9 Another technique I've seen is using self-directed Roth IRAs to invest in private placements or real estate that has explosive growth potential. You need to be careful with prohibited transactions though, since you can't self-deal.
16 Are there companies that help set up self-directed IRAs? My regular brokerage only lets me invest in standard stuff like stocks and ETFs.
Has anyone tried using the IRS's "Get Transcript" tool online to find this information? I'm wondering if it shows Form 8606 filings or if it's too general to help with basis calculations.
I tried that route first. The transcript shows that Form 8606 was filed but doesn't give you the detailed line items like your non-deductible contribution amounts. It's helpful to confirm if you filed the form, but you still need the actual forms to see the specific numbers.
Another overlooked option: If you absolutely cannot determine your basis accurately, you could consider a "fresh start" by doing a full backdoor Roth conversion. Take all your Traditional IRA money, pay the taxes on the full amount (assuming it's all taxable), and move to Roth. Then start tracking properly going forward. Yes, you might pay some extra taxes if you had non-deductible contributions in there, but the peace of mind and clean slate might be worth it for some people. I did this two years ago and while the tax hit wasn't fun, the simplicity going forward has been great.
This seems like terrible advice if the person has a large IRA balance. You could end up paying tens of thousands in unnecessary taxes! Plus dumping a large conversion into a single tax year could push you into a higher bracket.
You're right that it's not for everyone - should have been clearer about that. It makes sense mainly for smaller balances where the potential overtaxation is less than the hassle of reconstructing years of missing records. For larger balances, it's definitely worth putting in the time to get the basis right. I should have mentioned that doing partial conversions over several years can also help manage the tax impact by spreading it across multiple tax brackets.
Something nobody has mentioned - if you already made unqualified distributions from your Roth IRA for the hard money loan and property purchase, you might want to look into converting your remaining Vanguard Roth to a self-directed IRA for FUTURE investments, not to fix the past ones. Self-directed IRAs let you invest in things like real estate, private loans, etc. directly through the IRA. Might help you avoid this situation in the future. Companies like Equity Trust, IRA Financial, and Rocket Dollar specialize in these accounts. Just a thought!
Do self-directed IRAs have different rules about distributions? Like could OP have done these exact investments but avoided the tax hit if they were already in a self-directed account?
Self-directed IRAs follow the same basic distribution rules as any IRA. The difference is what you can invest in while the money remains inside the IRA. If OP had already set up a self-directed IRA before making these investments, they could have made the hard money loan and purchased the rental property directly through the IRA without taking a distribution. The IRA itself would own the property and loan, keeping everything tax-advantaged. All income and gains would flow back into the IRA tax-free (for a Roth). That's the major advantage - making alternative investments while keeping the tax benefits intact.
Has anyone dealt with trying to put real estate back into an IRA after purchasing it personally? I heard there's some kind of prohibited transaction rule about selling your own property to your IRA. Is that true?
Yes, that's absolutely true and a critical point. The IRS has strict rules against "self-dealing" transactions. You cannot sell property you already own personally to your IRA - that's considered a prohibited transaction and can result in the entire IRA being disqualified. The same applies to transactions between your IRA and any "disqualified persons" which includes yourself, your spouse, parents, children, and certain business partners. So unfortunately, once you've purchased property personally, there's no way to transfer it into an IRA without triggering these prohibited transaction rules.
Keisha Johnson
Nobody has mentioned this, but there's also the step-up in basis to consider! If you gift assets during your lifetime, the recipient takes your cost basis. If they inherit after death, they get a stepped-up basis to the fair market value at your death, which can be HUGE for capital gains tax purposes. For example, if you bought stock at $10K that's now worth $50K, and you gift it, your child has a $10K basis. If they later sell at $100K, they pay capital gains on $90K of appreciation. If they inherited it at your death when worth $50K, they'd only pay tax on $50K of appreciation. This is why sometimes it's better to hold appreciated assets until death rather than gifting during life, especially if you're unlikely to hit the estate tax exemption.
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Dylan Campbell
ā¢Wow, I hadn't thought about the basis step-up issue at all. Does this mean I should be gifting cash rather than appreciated investments if I do start annual gifting? Or is there some strategy that lets you get the best of both worlds?
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Keisha Johnson
ā¢Yes, if you're going to gift, cash or high-basis assets are generally better from a tax perspective. You want to keep the low-basis (highly appreciated) assets in your estate to get that step-up when you pass. Another strategy some people use is life insurance. If you're worried about estate taxes but want to preserve the step-up, you can keep your appreciated assets and buy life insurance in an irrevocable life insurance trust (ILIT) to provide liquidity for any estate taxes. The insurance proceeds, if structured correctly, pass outside your estate and can be used to pay any estate tax due, allowing your heirs to keep more of your assets intact.
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Paolo Rizzo
I think people are overthinking this. The annual gift exclusion is use-it-or-lose-it. If you don't use this year's $17k exclusion, you can't make up for it later. And if your looking at 30+ years of compounding, those early gifts could grow substantially. My approach has been to just do a 529 for college funds, then put the rest in a UTMA. Yes, my kid gets it at 21, but that's what good parenting is for. Teach them about money so they don't blow it all. And if you're really worried, you could do a trust, but honestly at your wealth level that seems like overkill for now.
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QuantumQuest
ā¢I disagree with your "use it or lose it" framing. While you can't recover unused annual exclusions, you still have your lifetime estate/gift tax exemption. So it's not like those opportunities to transfer tax-free are gone forever if you don't make annual gifts. Also, compounding works the same whether the money is in your account or your child's account. The real question is whether you think you'll exceed the lifetime exemption (even after it decreases), which most people won't.
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