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Has anyone actually been audited over this specific issue? I'm in the same boat (S-corp with rental property, managed by property management company) and my CPA says no W-2 needed either. Just wondering if this is something the IRS actually targets or if it's more theoretical risk?
My brother-in-law got hit with this in 2022. His S-corp had 3 rental properties with property managers, and he thought he didn't need to take a salary. IRS audited and determined he should have been taking a reasonable salary for the time he spent overseeing the properties and managers, reviewing financial statements, etc. Ended up owing back taxes plus penalties.
I'm dealing with the exact same situation and honestly, the conflicting advice is driving me crazy! My S-corp has a rental property that's fully managed by a property management company, and I literally just sign the annual tax forms and pay insurance. That's it. My CPA insists no W-2 is needed since I'm not materially participating in the business operations, but then I read horror stories online about people getting audited and owing back taxes. The gray area nature of this rule is so frustrating. What's really concerning me is that even if my CPA is technically correct, will the IRS see it the same way during an audit? I'm starting to think it might be worth just taking a small salary (maybe $2-3k annually) just to have documentation that I'm following the rules, even if it's not technically required in my situation. Has anyone found any definitive IRS guidance specifically about S-corps with fully managed rental properties? The general "reasonable compensation" rules seem to be written more for active businesses, not passive rental investments.
I totally get the frustration with the conflicting advice! I've been in a similar situation and what helped me was looking at the actual IRS guidance on "material participation" for rental activities. The key distinction is that rental activities are generally considered passive under IRC Section 469, which changes how the S-corp salary rules apply. If you're truly not materially participating (sounds like you're not based on your description), your CPA might be right. That said, I ended up taking a minimal salary ($3k annually) just for peace of mind and audit protection. It's a small price to pay for clear documentation that you're following the rules, even if technically not required. Plus it gives you some earned income for retirement contributions if that matters to you. The IRS Publication 925 has some guidance on material participation tests that might help clarify your situation. Your approach of taking a small salary as insurance makes a lot of sense!
Called IRS yesterday about this exact thing. They said 4-6 weeks is standard wait time for paper check after DD rejection. But tbh could be faster depending on your location
called right at 7am EST. Only way to get through these days ngl
Same thing happened to me last year. Took about 3 weeks after the rejection for the paper check to arrive. The annoying part is WMR doesn't update very clearly when they switch to paper check - it just keeps saying "being processed" until it's actually mailed. Hang in there, it should come soon since you're already at the 2 week mark!
thanks for sharing your experience! that's reassuring to hear. yeah WMR is pretty useless when it comes to the switch to paper check - wish they'd be more transparent about the process
Another common mistake I see with ESPP calculations is forgetting about commission fees. When calculating your total gain/loss, don't forget to factor in any fees you paid when selling the shares. For example, if you sold at $250 but paid a $5 commission, your actual proceeds would be $245. This affects both your ordinary income calculation (since it's based partly on actual proceeds) and your capital gain calculation.
This is partly correct but needs clarification. Commission fees paid when SELLING shares reduce your sales proceeds (as you mentioned), but commission fees paid when BUYING the shares increase your cost basis. Many ESPP programs don't charge commissions for purchase, but if yours does, don't forget to add that to your basis.
Great discussion here! I wanted to add a few points that might help others dealing with ESPP calculations: 1. **Record keeping is crucial** - Create a detailed spreadsheet for each purchase lot that includes offering date, purchase date, FMV on both dates, purchase price, sale date, sale price, and all fees. This will save you hours during tax season. 2. **Watch out for same-day sales** - If you sell ESPP shares on the same day you purchase them, the tax treatment can be different. The entire discount may be treated as ordinary income rather than going through the qualifying/disqualifying disposition analysis. 3. **State tax considerations** - Don't forget that your state may have different rules for ESPP taxation. Some states don't recognize the federal preferential treatment for qualifying dispositions. 4. **Multiple brokers** - If your company switched brokers during the year, make sure you're getting all the necessary 1099-B forms. I've seen people miss reporting sales because they forgot about shares held at a previous broker. The original calculation looks mostly correct once you use the purchase date FMV for the discount calculation as Jean Claude pointed out. Just double-check that you're accounting for all fees and that your company isn't already reporting any of this on your W-2.
This is incredibly helpful, especially the point about same-day sales! I didn't realize that could change the tax treatment completely. Quick question about record keeping - do you recommend using any specific software or template for tracking all these details? I've been using a basic Excel spreadsheet but I'm wondering if there's a better way to organize everything, especially when you have multiple purchase lots throughout the year. Also, regarding state taxes - is there an easy way to find out if your state follows federal ESPP rules or has its own requirements? I'm in California and want to make sure I'm not missing anything on the state return.
A warning from someone who learned the hard way - if you're selling on multiple platforms, they ALL count toward that $600 threshold! I was selling on eBay, Mercari, and Facebook Marketplace thinking each platform had its own separate $600 limit. Nope! You have to combine all your sales across all platforms. Also, some payment processors like PayPal or Venmo might send separate 1099-Ks too. I ended up with THREE different 1099 forms for what I thought was a small selling hobby. The IRS computer systems match these forms to your tax ID, so don't forget to report all of them!
I totally get the frustration @Rebecca! I was in the same boat last year - just wanted to declutter and make a few bucks, then suddenly I'm drowning in tax forms. Here's what I wish someone had told me from the start: keep it simple but organized. Create one spreadsheet with columns for: item sold, what you paid for it originally, sale price, shipping costs, and platform fees. That's literally all you need. The good news is you're only taxed on actual profit, not gross sales. So if you bought something for $20, sold it for $35, and paid $3 in fees, you only owe taxes on $12 profit. All those scary 1099 forms just show gross sales - they don't tell the full story of what you actually made. Don't let the complexity scare you away from selling! Just start tracking everything now and you'll be fine next tax season.
Anastasia Popov
Just got those same codes last week! lets hope we both get paid soon
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Malik Thompson
ā¢fingers crossed! š¤ keep me updated
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Anastasia Popov
ā¢will do! we're all in this together lol
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Eve Freeman
TC 571 is actually a good sign! It means the IRS is releasing a previous hold or reversing an adjustment. Combined with TC 971, you should be getting a notice explaining what happened. I had the same codes last year and got my refund about 3 weeks later. The waiting is brutal but you're probably in the home stretch now. Check your transcript weekly for TC 846 - that's when you'll see your actual refund date!
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Vincent Bimbach
ā¢Thanks for explaining this! Really helps to hear from someone who's been through it. I'll definitely keep checking for that 846 code. Just hoping the IRS moves faster than usual š¤
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