Social Security Administration

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Wait i'm confused...I thought the spousal benefit reduction was only based on when YOU file...but I thought the survivor benefit reduction was based on when the DECEASED person filed??? Is that not right?? Can someone clarify??

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There are two separate reductions that can apply to survivor benefits: 1. If the deceased spouse took reduced retirement benefits, the survivor benefit maximum is limited (with some exceptions). 2. If the surviving spouse claims survivor benefits before their own FRA, the survivor benefit is reduced based on the survivor's age. In the original poster's case, since her husband already took reduced benefits at 62, her eventual survivor benefit maximum is already affected by that decision. If she also takes her spousal benefit early, and later converts to survivor benefits, that early filing reduction would not carry over to the survivor benefit - that's a common misconception.

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After reading through this discussion, I think there's an important distinction that needs clarification: The reduction from claiming spousal benefits early does NOT carry over to survivor benefits. These are completely separate calculations. For survivor benefits: 1. If you claim survivor benefits before your FRA, they are reduced based on YOUR age at the time you claim THOSE benefits. 2. Survivor benefits can be affected by whether your deceased spouse claimed early, but NOT by whether YOU claimed spousal benefits early. This is a common area of confusion. You can claim reduced spousal benefits early, and later still receive unreduced survivor benefits if you wait until your FRA to claim them (assuming your spouse didn't take reduced benefits, which in this case he did at 62).

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Thank you for this important clarification! So my husband's decision to take benefits at 62 already impacted any future survivor benefits I might receive, but my decision about when to take spousal benefits won't further reduce those survivor benefits? That's very helpful information.

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My situation is similar to yours. I've been on survivor benefits for 3 years (I'm 64) and I started working part-time at my church. I talked to a financial advisor who specializes in Social Security issues, and he confirmed that SSA uses the ANNUAL limit for ongoing benefits, not monthly. So you should be totally fine as long as you stay under $22,680 for the year. But do yourself a favor and keep careful records of all your earnings in case there's ever a question. I keep a spreadsheet with my monthly earnings and a running total for the year to make sure I don't accidentally go over.

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Not trying to argue but it's CRAZY how many different answers people get from SSA!!! When my neighbor went through this they definitely used MONTHLY limits and she lost benefits for going over in just ONE month!!! Maybe the rules changed or maybe the SSA staff don't even know their own rules???

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The confusion is understandable. The monthly earnings test only applies in the first year you claim benefits or in the year you reach FRA. For all other years, it's an annual limit. Your neighbor may have been in one of those special situations, or there may have been a misunderstanding. The rules haven't changed in this regard for many years. Also worth noting - if you do exceed the annual limit, SSA withholds $1 in benefits for every $2 you earn above the limit.

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I want to thank everyone for their helpful responses! I feel much better knowing I can manage my annual earnings rather than worrying about each individual month. I'll definitely keep track of my total earnings to make sure I stay under the $22,680 limit for the year. I'm going to call SSA just to confirm this information for my specific situation, but at least now I have a much better understanding of how the earnings test works. This community has been so helpful!

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Glad you got the answers you needed! This stuff is so confusing sometimes.

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That's a good plan to call SSA for confirmation. Just remember that when you call, you might need to politely ask for a supervisor if the first representative seems unsure about the annual vs. monthly earnings test. Unfortunately, not all SSA staff are equally knowledgeable about every rule. Good luck!

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Since ALS is progressive and your sister's speech is already affected, I'd suggest looking into assistive technology right away, in addition to the benefits applications. Many ALS patients use eye-tracking technology and speech generating devices that Medicare will cover with the right documentation. Ask her neurologist for a referral to a speech-language pathologist who specializes in ALS right away. They can help with both communication strategies and the documentation needed for Medicare to cover communication devices when needed.

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This is incredibly helpful advice I hadn't even considered yet. We've been so focused on the financial/benefits side that we haven't gotten to the assistive technology. I'll definitely ask about the speech-language pathologist at her next appointment next week. Thank you!

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I know everyone's focused on the SSDI/SSI question, but don't forget to look into whether your sister's state has a Medicaid waiver program that could help with home care. Many ALS patients eventually need significant assistance, and these waiver programs can provide caregivers, equipment, and home modifications. The income/asset limits are sometimes more flexible than regular Medicaid too. Also, has she worked enough recently to qualify for short or long-term disability through her business? That might provide some immediate income while the SSDI application is being processed, even with the expedited timeline.

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The tax situation depends on your state too! Some states like NM, UT, VT tax Social Security benefits while others like FL, TX, WA have no state income tax at all. Where do you live? That could make a big difference in your calculations.

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We're in Illinois, which fortunately doesn't tax Social Security benefits at the state level. So we'd only be dealing with the federal taxation.

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Since no one has mentioned it yet - you might want to run some actual numbers on the break-even analysis. If your wife claims at 67 versus waiting until 70, she'll need to live until approximately age 82-83 to break even (where the total benefits received by delaying equal what she would have received by filing at 67). Any years beyond that break-even point would favor delaying. Given that a woman who reaches 67 has an average life expectancy into her mid-80s, statistically delaying often makes sense, even accounting for the taxation of benefits.

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THATS THE RIGHT WAY TO LOOK AT IT!! Too many people just see the bigger check but dont do the math. My buddy waited til 70 then died at 72...bad deal. No one knows how long they got left.

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Update: I finally managed to get through to SSA this morning! They confirmed my husband's application is still processing (ugh) but should be completed within the next two weeks. And yes, with his birthday being the 27th, his first payment will come on February 26th. They also said we'll receive an award letter about 2-3 weeks before the first payment. Thanks everyone for your help!

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Great news! How did you finally get through? I'm dealing with a different SS issue now and can't get anyone on the phone.

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I actually ended up using that Claimyr service someone mentioned above. Felt a little silly paying to get through to a government agency we all fund with our taxes, but I was desperate after weeks of trying. Got connected to an agent in about 25 minutes!

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Thanks for the update! Might try that myself. The peace of mind is probably worth it at this point.

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