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Social Security GPO question - do I need to reapply for spousal benefits after 2013 denial?
I'm so confused about this Government Pension Offset (GPO) situation. I retired from teaching in 2013 after 28 years and applied for my own Social Security benefits (I had enough quarters from summer jobs). When I applied, my SS retirement benefit was reduced because of WEP. I also applied for spousal benefits on my husband's record at the same time, but got ZERO dollars thanks to the GPO.Fast forward to now - my husband passed away last year, and I'm trying to figure out if I qualify for any survivor benefits. When I called SSA last week, the rep told me something surprising. She said I don't need to submit a new application for spousal benefits because I already applied back in 2013, and that "all will be resolved" when they figure out my current and retroactive benefit amounts.This doesn't sound right to me. Wouldn't I need to file a new application for survivor benefits since my status changed from spouse to widow? Has anyone else been told they don't need to reapply in a similar situation? I'm worried I'm getting incorrect info and might miss out on benefits I'm entitled to.
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Something nobody's mentioned yet - you'll need to provide proof of your marriage and divorce when you apply for ex-spouse benefits. They'll want your marriage certificate and divorce decree. If you can't find them, you can get copies from the county clerk's office where you got married/divorced. I had to do this for my own application - cost about $25 for each document.
Oh thanks for mentioning this! Our divorce was finalized in another state and it was so long ago. I'll need to track down those documents. And I'm still not clear - should I apply now or wait until he reaches full retirement age? He's only 60 now.
You can apply now since you've been divorced for more than 2 years and you're already receiving SSDI. You don't need to wait for him to reach his full retirement age or file for benefits. However, whether you should apply now depends on the benefit amounts. Based on your current SSDI of $1,450, and assuming your ex-husband has had high earnings throughout his career, it may be worth checking. Here's what I suggest: 1. Call SSA to schedule an appointment (use the Claimyr service someone mentioned if you have trouble getting through) 2. Ask for an estimate of what your ex-spouse benefit would be 3. Compare that to your current SSDI amount 4. If the ex-spouse benefit is higher, proceed with the application Remember to gather your marriage certificate and divorce decree before the appointment. If you can't find them, start the process of requesting new copies now, as this can take several weeks.
Thank you so much for all this help. I'll call tomorrow to make an appointment and start gathering my documents. Everyone here has been incredibly helpful!
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this happened to my neighbors brother and SSA ended up sending him to COLLECTIONS even tho he tried to return the $$!!! make sure u get EVERYTHING in writing!!!
That's terrifying! I'm definitely going to document everything and get confirmation numbers for all calls. I don't want this hanging over my head for months or years.
Based on your latest responses, I think you've got a good plan forming. To summarize the best approach: 1. Use Claimyr to get through to SSA quickly (worth it to avoid hours of hold time) 2. Ask specifically for a Title II Claims Specialist about direct deposit reclamation 3. Request the DD-RTN form process as mentioned by the former SSA employee 4. Keep detailed records of all communications 5. Follow up with the facility administrator since they're now the official payee This combined approach gives you the best chance of resolving this efficiently. Please let us know how it goes - your experience might help others in similar situations.
Thank you for summarizing this so clearly! I'll update once I get this resolved. Everyone's advice has been incredibly helpful and given me a much clearer path forward than what I started with.
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i think ur mixing up some things. ssdi and retirement r different programs. if u get ssdi, they just pay u the higher amount, not both. workers comp offset only applies to ssdi not to retirement benefits directly. but its all connected cuz if ur getting both then the total amount matters for the offset calculation. hope that makes sense
Thanks for trying to explain. So if I'm understanding you correctly, they wouldn't pay me both SSDI and early retirement - they'd just give me whichever is higher?
To address your specific questions more directly: 1. Workers' Comp can reduce SSDI through the offset provision, but it doesn't directly reduce retirement benefits. However, if you're receiving SSDI (which replaces your early retirement when approved), then the WC offset would effectively reduce your total Social Security income. 2. If approved for SSDI while receiving early retirement, you would receive your full disability benefit (equivalent to your full retirement benefit) minus any applicable WC offset. This would typically be higher than your reduced early retirement amount. 3. Yes, when you reach FRA, your benefits automatically convert from disability to retirement benefits. The dollar amount stays the same, but the WC offset no longer applies. You should contact SSA about your specific case because the timing of your WC settlement and SSDI approval can affect how everything is calculated.
This makes much more sense now. So essentially, getting approved for SSDI would likely be beneficial for me even with the WC offset because I'd move from my reduced early retirement amount to my full benefit amount (minus offset). And then at FRA, the offset goes away. Do I have that right?
Yes, that's correct. In most cases, even with a WC offset, you would receive more than your reduced early retirement benefit. And yes, at FRA, the WC offset no longer applies, so you would receive your full retirement benefit regardless of any WC settlement.
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One more thing that worked for me - I contacted my congressional representative's office. They have caseworkers who deal with federal agencies like SSA all the time. Within a week of reaching out to them, I miraculously got a call from someone at SSA who actually knew what they were doing! Worth a try if you keep hitting roadblocks.
This is excellent advice. Congressional inquiries often get routed to specialized teams at SSA that can resolve issues more efficiently than going through normal channels. They also create a formal record of your attempts to resolve the issue.
btw make sure when they do finally call you have ALL your kids docs ready - birth certificates, ssn cards, school info if theyre older, custody papers if theres any complicated family situation. they get super annoyed if you dont have everything and might make you start over with another appt
Good reminder! I have their birth certificates and SS cards in a folder ready to go. Fortunately there's no custody issues - they live with me full-time.
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do your kids live with you full time? my friend has 50/50 custody and her ex gets half the kids benefits check which seems unfair since hes not disabled
Yes, they live with me full-time. Their father isn't in the picture at all. That's good to know though - I hadn't even considered custody issues affecting the benefits.
One more thing to be aware of - if you're also receiving SSI (Supplemental Security Income) in addition to SSDI, the children's auxiliary benefits could potentially affect your SSI amount. This is because children's benefits might count as deemed income in certain situations. However, if you're only receiving SSDI and not SSI, then this isn't a concern.
No, I'm only on SSDI, not SSI. My work history was solid enough that my SSDI payment is higher than the SSI limit. But that's still helpful info - this whole system is so complicated! I appreciate everyone helping me understand it better.
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my friend said if you work past 70 the WEP goes away completely is that true??
No, working past age 70 doesn't eliminate WEP. You might be thinking of the fact that if you have 30+ years of substantial earnings under Social Security, the WEP doesn't apply at all. Each year between 20-30 years reduces the WEP penalty by 10%, but just working longer past age 70 without adding more substantial earnings years doesn't change the WEP impact.
One other important point: while the maximum WEP reduction increases annually with the wage index, your husband's actual WEP reduction might increase at a different rate. This is because the actual reduction depends on his specific Primary Insurance Amount (PIA) calculation. The WEP essentially changes how the first bend point in the formula is applied (reducing it from 90% to as low as 40%), but the full calculation involves all your earnings history. So the actual dollar impact can increase at a different rate than the maximum WEP amount.
That makes this even more complicated! I think I need to schedule an appointment with SSA to get the specific numbers for our situation. But at least now I understand the general mechanism behind the annual increases. Thank you for the detailed explanation!
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my friend told me if u call the SS office directly they'll tell u the exact amount you'll get on your record vs your ex. save u all the trouble of guessing
That's good advice. I've been dreading calling them, but I guess that's really the only way to get the exact numbers. I need to block off a whole morning to wait on hold I think!
Just wanted to update that I ended up using Claimyr this afternoon after seeing so many people mention long hold times. It really did work! Got connected to a Social Security rep in about 15 minutes. The rep confirmed that in my case, my own benefit would be slightly higher than the ex-spouse benefit, so I'll be going with that when I reach my full retirement age next year. Such a relief to have a clear answer finally!
thx for sharing ur update!! glad u got an answer and didnt have to waste hours on hold!
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I wanted to add - make sure when you do apply that you bring your marriage certificate AND divorce decree. I didn't bring my divorce papers when I applied and had to make a second trip. Also, you might want to request your appointment specifically with someone who handles survivor claims, as they're more familiar with the ex-spouse rules. Some of the newer reps get confused about the details for divorced spouse survivor benefits.
That's really helpful! I was wondering what documents I'd need. I have my marriage certificate somewhere, but I'll need to find my divorce decree. I'm pretty sure it's in a box in the attic. Better start looking now.
what about if u wait til your full retirement age? would u get more money then? sometimes its better to wait i think....
Important clarification here: For survivor benefits (including divorced spouse survivor benefits), you can claim as early as age 60, but with a reduction. At Full Retirement Age, you'd get 100% of your survivor benefit. However, unlike regular retirement benefits, waiting BEYOND Full Retirement Age doesn't increase survivor benefits. So there's no advantage to waiting past FRA. In the original poster's case, claiming at 61 means taking a reduction from the full survivor benefit, but she might still get more now than waiting, especially if she needs the income. It's a personal calculation based on financial needs.
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r u sure ur getting the right info? my aunt started ss last year at 63 and they told her the first $1800 per month she made wouldnt count against the limit. have u asked about the monthly rule??
You're referring to the monthly earnings test, which only applies in the first year of retirement. If the person is truly retiring (not just reducing hours), SSA will only count earnings in months after retirement during that first calendar year. However, in the following years, they use the annual earnings test. Since OP is retiring in December but starting benefits in January, they'll be subject to the annual test, not the monthly one.
I still think the whole system is designed to confuse people and take their money. They make the rules so complicated that normal people can't possibly understand them. Then when you mess up, they hit you with overpayment notices and demand the money back right away. Meanwhile, they keep telling us Social Security is running out of money. Of course it is when they're paying all these bureaucrats to find ways to deny us our benefits!!!
While the rules can certainly be complex, they're actually designed to balance different objectives - providing retirement security while encouraging longer work lives to strengthen the system's finances. The earnings test is actually benefit deferral, not benefit denial - after you reach FRA, your monthly benefit is permanently increased to account for months when benefits were withheld. But I agree the SSA could do a much better job explaining these complicated rules to beneficiaries.
Christopher Morgan
To address your original question more precisely: You were told incorrect information. The 2013 application for spousal benefits is completely separate from survivor benefits. Here's what you need to do:1. Call SSA at 1-800-772-1213 and specifically state that you need to file for survivor benefits following your husband's death.2. Mention that you already understand GPO will affect the benefit, but you still need to file a new application.3. If possible, schedule an appointment at your local office rather than trying to handle it by phone.4. Gather your husband's death certificate, your marriage certificate, and information about your pension.5. Be aware that you can receive up to 6 months of retroactive benefits from your filing date, so file as soon as possible.Despite both being affected by GPO, survivor benefits use a different calculation than spousal benefits, and many people who received $0 in spousal benefits do receive some survivor benefits.
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Zoey Bianchi
Thank you for these specific steps. I've gathered most of those documents already, so I'll call first thing tomorrow. I really appreciate everyone helping me understand that I need to file a new application - I would have just been waiting for something that wasn't going to happen automatically!
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