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One thing nobody's mentioned yet is the Accumulated Earnings Tax that C-corps face if they retain too much profit without a business purpose. Since you mentioned wanting to reinvest rather than distribute profits, this could become an issue if your C-corp builds up substantial retained earnings. The IRS might question why you're accumulating earnings instead of paying dividends, and could impose an additional tax. There's a presumptive threshold (about $250k) where this can trigger scrutiny, though you can justify higher retained earnings if you have legitimate business needs. An LLC doesn't face this issue since profits are taxed at the individual level regardless of whether they're distributed.
Can you explain more about this Accumulated Earnings Tax? I've never heard of it but might be in a similar situation with my business. Is there a way to document plans for the retained earnings to avoid this tax?
Yes, you can document specific plans for using the accumulated earnings to avoid the tax. The IRS looks for "reasonable needs of the business" - things like expansion plans, equipment purchases, research and development, or contingency funds for specific business risks. The key is having a concrete plan, not just a vague notion of "future growth." Documentation is crucial - board meeting minutes approving a specific expansion plan with estimated costs, for example. For an investment business, you could document plans to make specific types of larger investments that require accumulated capital. Just be aware that "investing in the market" isn't typically considered a reasonable business need since that's what investment companies do by default.
My accountant pointed out something important that hasn't been mentioned yet - if you form a C-corp just for investing, you might run into the Personal Holding Company (PHC) tax issue. This is a punitive tax (currently 20%) on undistributed income for closely-held corporations where passive income (like from investments) makes up more than 60% of gross income. This is specifically designed to prevent people from using corporations as tax shelters for investment income. So if investment is your primary activity in the C-corp, you might face this additional tax burden.
That's concerning and something I hadn't come across in my research. Between this PHC tax and the Accumulated Earnings Tax mentioned above, it sounds like there are multiple ways the IRS can penalize a C-corp used primarily for investments. Would an LLC taxed as an S-corp help avoid these specific issues while still potentially reducing self-employment taxes?
Exactly - the LLC taxed as an S-corp would avoid both the PHC tax and Accumulated Earnings Tax issues completely. S-corps are pass-through entities, so there's no concept of "undistributed earnings" at the corporate level to tax. The S-corp approach can help reduce self-employment taxes because you can split your income between salary (subject to SE tax) and distributions (not subject to SE tax). Just be careful - your salary must be "reasonable" for the services you provide. For an investment business where your active participation might be limited, this benefit could be minimal since most of your income might be considered passive already and not subject to SE tax regardless of structure. Talk to your accountant about the "material participation" tests for your specific situation to determine whether your investment activities would qualify as active or passive income.
I'm a tax attorney who has gone through this exact situation. The critical factor is whether the lawyer currently performs tasks that CPAs perform. If they're doing accounting, tax planning, financial analysis, etc. as part of their legal practice, then the CPA credential enhances existing skills rather than qualifying for a new profession. Schedule C deduction would likely be better than the Lifetime Learning Credit if they're self-employed and in a higher tax bracket. The LLC is limited to $2,000 with income phaseouts, while a Schedule C business deduction has no cap and reduces SE tax too.
Thanks for sharing your experience! When you say Schedule C might be better, does that mean you believe the education would qualify as a legitimate business expense under T Reg 1.162-5(a) for someone in this situation?
Yes, I believe it would qualify as a legitimate business expense in this specific case. The key is that T Reg 1.162-5(a) allows deductions for education that "maintains or improves skills required by the individual in his employment or other trade or business." If your client can document that they regularly perform accounting functions in their law practice (like tax planning, financial analysis for clients, etc.), then the CPA education enhances existing skills rather than qualifying them for a new profession. It's the actual tasks performed that matter, not the job title. I successfully took this position on my own return and have advised clients similarly without issues.
Has anyone considered that this might be eligible for both the Lifetime Learning Credit AND a partial Schedule C deduction? If the courses have mixed purposes (partly for current business, partly for new credentials), you might be able to allocate a percentage to each based on course content.
Former tax preparer here. Just wanted to clarify a couple things I'm seeing in this thread: 1. Mileage is definitely your biggest deduction. Track every mile when you're active on the app. 2. Phone percentage is deductible based on business use. 3. Specialty equipment (hot bags, car mounts) is 100% deductible. 4. Regular clothing is NEVER deductible, even if you only wear it for work. The IRS rule is that if you could theoretically wear it outside of work, it's not deductible. 5. Meals while driving are not deductible as they're considered personal expenses. One thing not mentioned: if you use a portion of your home exclusively for managing your delivery business (scheduling, bookkeeping, etc), you might qualify for a home office deduction. Just be careful with this one as it has strict requirements.
Do you know if tolls and parking can be deducted separately from the standard mileage deduction? Or are those included in the standard rate?
Tolls and parking fees can absolutely be deducted separately from your standard mileage deduction! This is a common misconception. The standard mileage rate covers gas, maintenance, depreciation, and insurance, but business parking and tolls are separate legitimate deductions. Just make sure you keep good records of these expenses, including receipts and noting the business purpose. Also, remember this only applies to parking and tolls while you're actively working - not your regular commuting expenses if you have another job.
Just don't do what my roommate did last year - he tried to deduct his Netflix subscription because he "watches it between deliveries while waiting for orders" lol. He got his return flagged and ended up having to pay it back plus penalties.
That's hilarious and painful at the same time! Did he actually get audited or did they just adjust his return?
They didn't do a full audit thankfully, just what they call a "correspondence audit" where they questioned specific items on his return. They disallowed the Netflix deduction plus a few other questionable things he tried to write off (like all his groceries because "he needs energy to deliver food"). He had to pay back about $840 plus a 20% accuracy-related penalty. The IRS sent him a letter explaining why each item wasn't considered a legitimate business expense. Expensive lesson learned!
Another option is to change how you invoice the client. Instead of showing expenses as reimbursements, build them into your fee and then just deduct them normally. For example, if your normal rate is $100/hr for 10 hours ($1000) plus $300 in expenses, just bill them $1300 as your service fee. Then on your end, you deduct the expenses normally including the 50% meal limitation. Not ideal, but it simplifies things and avoids this whole mess with incorrect 1099s.
But wouldn't that mean you're artificially inflating your income and then taking deductions against it? I feel like that's not accurately representing what's happening - these ARE reimbursements, not actual income.
You're right that it's not the most accurate representation of what's happening. It's more of a pragmatic workaround when dealing with clients who won't issue proper 1099s. The end result tax-wise should be roughly the same for most expenses except meals. For meals, you'd still be limited by the 50% rule, which is the original problem. So this approach works better if meal expenses are a small portion of your reimbursements.
What if you just ask the client to pay expenses directly instead of reimbursing you? I had this problem and started requiring clients to book and pay for travel/hotels themselves and to pay for meals when I'm with them. This way nothing gets reimbursed and nothing extra appears on the 1099. They might actually prefer this since they can use their corporate cards and get points/rewards.
Julian Paolo
Just a warning - if you ever sell this property, you'll need to recapture all the depreciation you've taken (or were supposed to take even if you didn't claim it!) at a 25% tax rate. This surprises a lot of people. Also, if you move back into the property later and make it your primary residence again, you might qualify for some exclusion of gain under the ownership and use tests, but there are complex rules about periods of nonqualified use. Might want to consult with a CPA before making any big decisions.
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Ella Knight
ā¢This! Depreciation recapture bit me hard when I sold my rental last year. I didn't realize I'd have to pay back all those tax benefits at 25% rate. Would have made different decisions if I'd understood this from the beginning.
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William Schwarz
If this was supposed to be your primary residence but you had to rent it out, don't forget that if you do move into it later, the "2 out of 5 years" rule for capital gains exclusion ($250k single/$500k married) gets complicated. The IRS has specific rules about "non-qualified use periods" that can reduce your exclusion. You should definitely claim the mortgage interest deduction against rental income now, but just be aware it might affect your future tax situation if you sell or convert it back to personal use.
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Lucy Taylor
ā¢Thank you for mentioning this! We do hope to eventually move into this house, maybe in 2-3 years once my husband's employment stabilizes. Is there any documentation I should keep now to help with this potential future situation?
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William Schwarz
ā¢Keep absolutely everything! Save all records related to: - Your original purchase (closing documents, original intent to occupy) - Any emails or documentation showing your plans changed due to job loss - All rental income and expense records - Any improvements or repairs (with receipts) - Property tax statements showing separate land/building values - Documentation of when you begin using it as your primary residence Also consider getting a professional appraisal when you convert it back to personal use. Having solid documentation of the property's value at each conversion point can save you thousands in taxes when you eventually sell.
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