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Former IRS employee here. Your instincts are correct. The "limited commerce" argument is very thin if: 1) They had revenue growth 2) Never suspended operations 3) Were already remote-capable The ERC was designed for businesses that were negatively impacted by COVID, not those that thrived. Many of these ERC companies use extremely aggressive interpretations that don't align with the intent of the law or IRS guidance. Your client should understand that THEY bear the risk, not the ERC company. The IRS has specifically identified questionable ERC claims as an enforcement priority.
What kind of penalties are we talking about if someone gets audited and the IRS rejects their claim? Is it just paying back the money or are there additional fines?
If the IRS determines an ERC claim was improper, they can require repayment of the full credit amount plus interest (which is currently at a high rate). In cases where they determine the claim was recklessly or intentionally improper, they can also assess accuracy-related penalties of 20% or even fraud penalties of 75% of the underpayment. There's also the cost of defending an audit, potential damage to banking relationships if a large repayment is suddenly required, and the business disruption of dealing with an extended examination.
My brother owns a retail shop and got suckered into one of these ERC claims by a company making big promises. They claimed his business qualified because of "supply chain disruptions" even though his revenue was up in 2020/2021. He got a huge refund check ($280k), and the ERC company took their 23% cut right away. Six months later, he got selected for audit and now has to pay it ALL back plus interest. The ERC company is nowhere to be found now that there's a problem. Just warn your client that if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. These companies get their fee regardless of whether the claim holds up under audit.
Thanks for sharing this - this is exactly what I'm worried about. I keep trying to explain the risks to my client but he only sees the dollar signs and not the potential consequences. Did your brother's business have any specific government orders that restricted their operations, or was it purely the "supply chain" angle that the ERC company used?
He had to close for about 3 weeks in early 2020 like most retail, but reopened with masks/distancing requirements. The ERC company focused mainly on "supply chain disruptions" claiming his inability to get some inventory items qualified as a partial suspension. The IRS disagreed completely. Their position was that since his overall revenue increased and he found alternative products to sell, he clearly wasn't significantly impacted in a way that qualified. The business had its best year ever during COVID because people were shopping locally instead of at malls.
One thing nobody's mentioned yet - check if both software programs are using the same tax year rules! This happened to me once where one program somehow wasn't fully updated with the latest tax law changes, and it caused a similar discrepancy. Also, sometimes the difference can be due to how each software rounds certain calculations or handles certain credits in different orders of operations. It's annoying but can cause hundreds in differences.
That's a really good point I hadn't considered. How would I check if my software is using the most current tax rules? Is there some version number or update date I should look for?
Most tax software will show the tax year version somewhere in the settings or about section. Look for something that says "Tax Year 2025" or "Updated for 2025 tax law changes." Some will even show the specific update date. If your software offers a way to view the actual IRS instructions they're using for calculations, that can help too. The most reliable way though is to check the preview of Schedule 8812 from both software programs - they should both reference the same tax year and use identical calculation methods for the Child Tax Credit.
Random thought but have you tried entering your info in the IRS's free calculator on their website? It's not as thorough as full tax software but it can give you a general idea of what your refund should be. Might help you triangulate which software is closer to correct.
The IRS calculator is decent but it doesn't handle some of the more complex situations. I'd also suggest running the numbers quickly through a third software like Cash App Taxes (formerly Credit Karma Tax) which is completely free regardless of income. Having a third calculation might help show which of your current ones is more likely correct.
Economics PhD student here. Another reason for the flat corporate rate that hasn't been mentioned is capital mobility. Corporations can shift profits between countries much more easily than individuals can relocate. A highly graduated corporate tax would incentivize even more profit-shifting to lower-tax jurisdictions. Most countries use relatively flat corporate rates with various deductions/credits rather than graduated rates precisely for this reason. It's part of why there's been a global push for minimum corporate tax rates internationally - to prevent a "race to the bottom" where countries keep cutting corporate rates to attract business.
Interesting point about international competition. Do other major economies like the EU, Japan, etc. also use flat corporate rates? Or are there any examples of major economies successfully using graduated corporate rates?
Yes, almost all major economies use flat corporate rates. The UK, Germany, France, Japan, Canada - all flat rates with various deductions and credits. China has a flat 25% standard rate with reductions for certain industries or regions. There are very few examples of graduated corporate rates in major economies. South Korea has a modestly graduated system with three brackets (10%, 20%, 22%), and the US actually had a slightly graduated system before the 2017 tax reform with brackets of 15%, 25%, 34%, and 35%, though with income phaseouts that effectively flattened it for many corporations. The trend globally has been toward flatter systems with targeted incentives rather than graduated rates.
This is a perfect example of how the system is rigged in favor of corporations! Individuals get stuck with a progressive system where we pay more as we earn more, but corporations just get a flat rate no matter how many billions they make. And then they have armies of accountants finding loopholes to pay even less! Amazon paid $0 in federal taxes some years despite billions in profits! How is that fair when I'm paying 22% of my modest income? The whole "double taxation" argument is BS too since many corporate profits never get distributed to shareholders but instead go to stock buybacks and executive bonuses.
Your facts about Amazon aren't quite accurate. While they did pay little federal income tax in some years (2017-2018 notably), that was because they used legal deductions for R&D, stock-based compensation, and carried-forward losses from earlier years when they weren't profitable. They've since paid billions in taxes. The tax code incentivizes certain behaviors like R&D and investment. That's by design, not cheating. And corporate profits that go to executive compensation get taxed as personal income at graduated rates. Stock buybacks now have an excise tax specifically to address that issue.
Has anyone else noticed that Go2 Bank seems to have a lot of these "surprise" limitations? My cousin had issues with them restricting transfers above $10k without additional verification, which caused him to miss a house deposit deadline. Their customer service was completely unhelpful too.
YES! I had a similar experience with withdrawals! They limited me to $3k per day without warning when I needed to pay for emergency home repairs. When I called customer service, they said I should have read the "digital disclosures" that apparently I agreed to. Never again.
I had the opposite problem last year - my bank processed my large tax payment but then froze my account for "suspicious activity"! Took three days to get it unfrozen. For payments this large, I've learned to call the bank BEFORE making the transaction to let them know it's coming and to confirm any limits. Saves a lot of headache. Pro tip: If you're cutting it close to the deadline, you can also file Form 4868 for an automatic extension to file (though you still need to pay the estimated amount by the original deadline to avoid penalties).
Does Form 4868 help if you've already calculated your taxes and know the exact amount? I thought that was just for extending the filing deadline, not the payment deadline?
You're exactly right - Form 4868 only extends the filing deadline, not the payment deadline. You still need to pay your estimated tax by the original due date to avoid penalties and interest. However, filing the extension can still be useful in this situation because it gives you more time to sort out the payment issues and properly file your return without the additional pressure of the filing deadline. If there are any complications with the split payments or processing time, at least you won't have the added stress of rushing to complete your return at the same time.
Peyton Clarke
I switched from TurboTax to FreeTaxUSA three years ago and couldn't agree more with OP. The "Rule of 7" was definitely true for me too - kept hearing about it but was reluctant to change. Best tax decision I ever made! For those considering switching, here's what I found: - Federal filing is basically free - State returns are way cheaper than TurboTax ($15 vs $50+) - Interface is cleaner and more straightforward - No constant upsell attempts - Same accuracy and support for most tax situations Only downsides I've found are the lack of import features and slightly less hand-holding if you're completely new to taxes. But if you've filed before and are comfortable with basic tax concepts, FreeTaxUSA is the way to go.
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Vince Eh
ā¢Did you try any others? I hear CreditKarma Tax (now Cash App Taxes) is also free?
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Peyton Clarke
ā¢I did try Cash App Taxes (formerly Credit Karma Tax) one year actually. It's completely free for both federal and state, which is amazing, but I found it less intuitive than FreeTaxUSA. The interface wasn't as polished, and I wasn't confident it was catching everything. FreeTaxUSA feels more thorough with its questionnaire and explanations. For me, the $15 state fee with FreeTaxUSA is worth the better experience, but if you're on a super tight budget, Cash App Taxes is definitely a viable option.
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Sophia Gabriel
Anyone else notice that TurboTax has gotten worse over the years? I used to be fine paying for it back when it was like $50 all-in, but now with all the upsells and add-ons it was gonna be over $150 for me this year!! Absolutely crazy. Just made the switch to FreeTaxUSA after seeing this post. Thanks for the recommendation.
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Tobias Lancaster
ā¢Yep, they've been using "dark patterns" in their design for years. They deliberately make it confusing which version you need and hide the truly free options. There have been investigations into their practices. FreeTaxUSA and others are definitely more transparent with pricing.
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