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Don't forget that even if the earnings are taxable (the difference between distribution and contributions), they might not be subject to the 10% early withdrawal penalty. Code 4 in Box 7 indicates a death distribution, which is one of the exceptions to the penalty. You'll still pay regular income tax on the earnings if the 5-year rule wasn't satisfied, but at least you avoid the penalty.
Thank you for mentioning that! I was worried about potential penalties too. So just to confirm: we'll only pay regular income tax on the $1,500.65 earnings portion (assuming we determine the 5-year rule wasn't met), but no additional 10% penalty because it's a death distribution. Is that right?
Yes, that's exactly right. The earnings portion would be subject to regular income tax only, with no additional 10% early withdrawal penalty. The death distribution code 4 provides an automatic exception to the penalty. If you do find out that your mother-in-law had established any Roth IRA more than 5 years before her passing (counting from the first tax year a contribution was made), then even the earnings would be tax-free.
I'm pretty sure you need to file Form 8606 along with your return when dealing with distributions from inherited Roth IRAs, especially when there's potentially taxable amounts involved. The form helps document your basis calculation. Has anyone here had to fill that out for a similar situation?
Yes, you're right about Form 8606, but Part III is specifically for Roth IRA distributions. It walks you through the calculation to determine the taxable amount. It's fairly straightforward - you'll enter the total distribution, then your basis (the contribution amount), and it will calculate the taxable portion for you.
One important point no one has mentioned yet is the "saving clause" in most US tax treaties. This clause basically preserves the US right to tax its citizens and residents as if the treaty didn't exist in many cases. Because of this, US citizens often can't use many treaty benefits that would reduce US tax. There are exceptions to the saving clause, but they're specific and limited. This is why the US might still fully tax your income according to US rules regardless of how the foreign country treats it. Check Article 1 of your specific treaty to see the saving clause and its exceptions. This could completely change your tax situation.
This is really helpful - I had no idea about the saving clause. Does this mean most treaty benefits don't even apply to US citizens? Are there any common exceptions that might help in a situation with income classification differences?
Most treaty benefits that would reduce US tax don't apply to US citizens because of the saving clause. You're right to be concerned. The common exceptions that might still help you typically include foreign social security benefits, certain pension income, students/teachers/researchers on temporary assignment, and diplomatic personnel. A few treaties have more generous exceptions. Unfortunately, general income classification differences usually aren't excepted from the saving clause, which means the US will likely tax the income according to US rules regardless of the treaty.
I'm shocked nobody mentioned Form 8833 (Treaty-Based Return Position Disclosure). If you're taking any position on your US tax return based on a treaty that differs from how the income would normally be treated under US tax law, you MUST file this form. Failing to file Form 8833 when required can result in a $1,000 penalty ($10,000 for corporations). This is especially important if you're claiming that a treaty overrides how the US would normally classify your income.
But aren't there exceptions to having to file Form 8833? I thought there were some common treaty positions where disclosure wasn't required? The instructions seem to list quite a few exceptions.
Anyone else think it's ridiculous that we have to decode these mysterious abbreviations ourselves? My W-2 box 14 has THREE different codes and amounts, and my employer just expects me to figure it out. I ended up emailing our payroll department and they took 4 days to respond with explanations. Apparently "GTLI" is "Group Term Life Insurance" which does matter for taxes. Don't be afraid to bug your HR or payroll people - it's literally their job to help with this stuff!
I completely agree! I have "Vol LTD" in box 14 and had no idea what it meant. Called my company's HR department and they explained it's "Voluntary Long-Term Disability Insurance" which apparently needs to be entered a specific way. The TurboTax dropdown actually had this as an option once I knew what to look for.
Weirdest box 14 entry I've ever seen was "MOVING" on my W-2 after my company relocated me. Turns out since the 2018 tax law changes, employer-paid moving expenses are now taxable income (they didn't use to be). Had to select "Moving Expenses" in TurboTax and it added that amount as taxable income. So definitely pick the right category - some of these DO affect your tax bill!
Wait, so if you select the wrong category in TurboTax for a box 14 item, could you actually end up paying wrong amount of taxes? Now I'm worried because I just picked "Other" for everything in my box 14 last year...
In some cases, yes! For items like taxable moving expenses, group term life insurance over $50,000, certain educational benefits, or taxable fringe benefits, choosing the wrong category could impact your tax calculation. These specific items need to be properly categorized because they might be included in your taxable income. For most other Box 14 items that are just informational (like state disability insurance payments or union dues), it typically won't affect your federal taxes, though it could still impact state tax calculations. If you're concerned about last year's return, you might want to double-check what those "Other" items actually were. You can always file an amended return if needed!
Another option for avoiding the pro rata rule that nobody mentioned yet is if you're self-employed, you can open a solo 401k and roll your traditional IRA funds into that. That's what I did last year when I was in a similar situation. The key is getting your traditional IRA balance to zero (or as close as possible) by December 31st of the year you do the conversion. Money market or invested doesn't matter at all - it's all about the total balance.
Do you know if this works if self-employment is just a side gig? I drive for Uber on weekends but have a regular W-2 job. Would I qualify for a solo 401k to do this rollover strategy?
Yes, this absolutely works with side gig self-employment! I was in exactly your situation - full-time W-2 job but also doing photography on the side with 1099 income. You can open a solo 401k with your self-employment income even if it's not your main job. There's no minimum income requirement to open a solo 401k, though you can only contribute based on your actual self-employment earnings. But for rollover purposes, you can roll in much larger amounts from your traditional IRAs regardless of how much you earn from your side gig. Just make sure you set up the solo 401k before the end of the calendar year.
I made a huge mistake with the pro rata rule last year and got hit with a totally unexpected tax bill. Had about $42k in a traditional IRA, did a $6k backdoor Roth conversion thinking I'd only pay taxes on the $6k, but ended up having to pay taxes on almost all of it because of pro rata. My accountant was furious that I did the conversion without consulting him first lol. Said I should have rolled the traditional IRA into my 401k first.
I've heard horror stories like this! How much extra did you end up owing in taxes because of the mistake?
Amelia Dietrich
3 One thing nobody's mentioned - if your spouse is from a country that has a tax treaty with the US, that could affect your filing strategy too. My husband is from the UK and we discovered some specific provisions that helped us. Also, make sure you look into whether your spouse needs to file an FBAR (Foreign Bank Account Report) if you have any shared accounts in their home country!
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Amelia Dietrich
ā¢11 What kind of tax treaty benefits did you find with the UK? My wife is from Canada and I'm wondering if there are similar advantages. Also, what's the threshold for FBAR reporting? We have a joint account in her country but it's not a huge amount.
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Amelia Dietrich
ā¢3 The UK-US tax treaty had specific provisions about pension contributions and certain types of investment income that were beneficial in our case. Every treaty is different though - the US-Canada one has its own unique aspects, so definitely look into that specifically. For FBAR reporting, the threshold is if your foreign accounts combined exceed $10,000 at any point during the year. Even if your individual account is small, if you have multiple accounts that together exceed that amount, you need to file. And remember, it's not just bank accounts but also investment accounts, certain pension accounts, etc.
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Amelia Dietrich
20 Has anyone successfully e-filed with a spouse who has an ITIN? I tried last year but kept getting rejected and eventually had to paper file, which took FOREVER to process.
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Amelia Dietrich
ā¢13 I e-filed last year with my husband's ITIN. The trick is that you need to enter the ITIN exactly as it appears on the ITIN letter from the IRS, including any hyphens. I had problems at first because I was entering it without hyphens.
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