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Former country club accountant here - the "non-profit" designation for country clubs is typically under 501(c)(7) as a social club, which is different from charitable non-profits. These clubs don't pay federal income tax on membership dues and fees from members, but they do pay tax on income from non-members and investment income. This status has zero effect on whether members can deduct their expenses. The tax implications only apply to the club itself, not the members. The confusion probably comes from people mixing up different types of non-profits and thinking all non-profit activities are somehow tax deductible.
That makes so much sense! I always wondered how these super expensive, exclusive clubs qualify as "non-profits" when they literally exist to provide luxury services to wealthy members. Thanks for explaining the difference.
As someone who works in tax preparation, I see this misconception constantly. People think that because they're spending money at a "non-profit" organization, it somehow makes their personal expenses deductible. That's absolutely not how it works. The key thing to understand is that business expense deductions are based on the PURPOSE of the expense, not the tax status of where you spend the money. You could spend money at a for-profit restaurant for a legitimate business meal and deduct 50% of it, or you could spend money at a non-profit country club for a personal dinner and deduct 0% of it. What really concerns me about your post is hearing members "openly joke" about calling everything a business meeting. The IRS has sophisticated data analysis tools that flag patterns of entertainment expenses, especially when they're consistently high amounts at the same venues. These members might think they're being clever, but they're actually creating a paper trail that screams "audit me." The documentation requirements for business meals are very specific - you need to record who attended, what business was discussed, when and where it occurred, and the business relationship of the people involved. "Had dinner with Bob" isn't going to cut it if the IRS comes knocking.
This is exactly what I was wondering about! The way these members were talking made it seem like they thought the club's non-profit status was some kind of magic shield that made everything deductible. Your explanation about it being based on the PURPOSE of the expense rather than where you spend it makes perfect sense. What really stuck with me was how casual they were about it - like they genuinely believed they had found some loophole. Some would even say things like "well, the club doesn't pay taxes so neither should we on expenses here." The disconnect between their confidence and what you're describing as actual tax law is pretty alarming. I'm curious though - do you think most of these people just don't know the rules, or are they knowingly pushing boundaries hoping they won't get caught? The amounts were substantial enough that audit risk seems like it would be a real concern.
Has anyone successfully got these R&D expenses classified as "supplies" instead? My accountant mentioned this might be possible but wasn't sure. I heard supplies can still be fully deducted in the year purchased.
Be careful with this approach. Materials and supplies used in R&D activities generally still fall under Section 174 and need to be capitalized. The IRS has been pretty clear that you can't avoid capitalization by simply renaming the expense category.
I feel your pain on this R&D capitalization mess! I'm running a similar technical consulting business (around $380k revenue) and have been wrestling with these same issues since 2022. One thing that's helped me is getting really granular about tracking the PURPOSE of each expense. I now maintain separate categories for: - Pure R&D (prototype development, experimental testing) - these unfortunately have to be capitalized - Business development activities (market research, competitive analysis) - often deductible as regular business expenses - Dual-use items (equipment/software used for both client work AND R&D) - can be allocated proportionally The key is documentation. I track time logs showing what percentage of equipment usage is for R&D vs. regular business operations. For software licenses, I document which projects they're used for and allocate costs accordingly. Also, consider the timing of when you actually START formal R&D activities. Some preliminary research and feasibility studies might not qualify as Section 174 R&D if they're general market exploration rather than specific product development. The cash flow impact is real though. I've had to get more strategic about when I make larger R&D investments to smooth out the tax burden over time. It's frustrating but manageable with proper planning.
Be careful about focusing too much on trying to convert passive to active. The IRS heavily scrutinizes attempts to recharacterize income/losses, especially with real estate. Have you considered other strategies? If you have passive income from other sources (other rental properties, certain investments), you could use these passive losses to offset that income regardless of the $25k limitation. Also, depreciation recapture will eventually come into play when you sell your interest. Sometimes having suspended passive losses can be beneficial for your overall tax strategy if properly planned.
This is smart advice. I got so fixated on the active vs passive classification that I forgot to look at my overall tax picture. I have some passive income from an LLC I'm not involved in running - can I use THOSE losses against my real estate passive losses?
I've been through this exact scenario with multiple syndication investments. The harsh reality is that the 10% ownership threshold you're thinking of doesn't apply to real estate syndications the way you're imagining. Even if you could negotiate your way to exactly 10% ownership, syndication operating agreements are specifically designed to prevent limited partners from materially participating regardless of ownership percentage. The syndicator needs to maintain control, and your limited partner status means you're contractually prohibited from involvement in day-to-day operations. I learned this the hard way after trying to restructure one of my investments. The key insight is that passive losses in syndications aren't necessarily "bad" - they're suspended and carried forward. When you eventually sell your interest, those accumulated losses can offset the gain, potentially saving you significant taxes on depreciation recapture. Instead of trying to convert to active treatment, consider building a portfolio of passive income sources (other rentals, certain business interests) that these losses can offset. The tax code actually works in your favor if you plan strategically rather than fighting the passive classification.
This is really helpful perspective from someone who's actually been through it. I'm curious about the portfolio approach you mentioned - when you say "certain business interests" that generate passive income, what types of investments are you referring to? I'm wondering if there are other passive income sources I should be considering to make better use of these suspended losses rather than just waiting until I sell the syndication interest.
This happened to me last year with Chime! Super annoying but here's what I learned - the paper check usually comes faster than they say. Mine showed up in about 12 days. In the meantime, definitely check your IRS transcript online to make sure there's nothing else holding things up. The rejection code should show as 841 on your transcript. Also make sure your mailing address is current because that's where the check will go. The whole process sucks but you'll get your money eventually!
@Giovanni Gallo That s'reassuring to hear it came faster than expected! 12 days isn t'too bad. I m'checking my transcript daily now lol. Quick question - did you have to do anything special to get the paper check or did it just show up automatically after the rejection?
@Giovanni Gallo @Luca Romano It should happen automatically! The IRS will issue the paper check once they process the rejection from Chime. No action needed on your part. Just make sure your address is up to date with the IRS. I had to update mine through their website before the check got sent out. The waiting is the worst part but at least you don t have'to jump through hoops to get it reissued!
Been there too! Chime rejected my refund last month and I was stressing hard. The good news is the IRS automatically sends a paper check - took about 2.5 weeks for mine to arrive. While you're waiting, definitely check your IRS transcript online to make sure the rejection is the only issue. Also worth updating your address on the IRS website if you've moved recently since that's where the check will go. I know the waiting sucks but you will get your money! Try calling that taxpayer advocate number someone mentioned if you need faster help - they're usually more helpful than regular IRS customer service.
Freya Collins
Just wanted to add another option that might be helpful - if you're dealing with correspondence from the IRS that requires immediate attention, you can also visit the Cleveland Public Library's main branch downtown. They have IRS forms available and free tax preparation software that you can use to print documents or forms you might need for your appointment. It's at 325 Superior Ave E, just a few blocks from the IRS office, so you could potentially handle both in one trip. They also have private computer stations where you can access your IRS online account securely if you need to check your tax transcript or account status before your appointment. The librarians there are pretty knowledgeable about directing people to tax resources, and it's free unlike some of the downtown print shops. Plus, if you end up having to wait for an IRS appointment, you could use that time productively to organize your documents or research your specific tax situation using their resources.
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Ryan Vasquez
ā¢That's such a smart tip about the Cleveland Public Library! I never would have thought of that, but it makes perfect sense to combine both stops into one downtown trip. Having access to free printing and secure internet to check my IRS account beforehand could really help me be better prepared for the appointment. Plus, being able to organize all my documents in a quiet space before heading over to the IRS office sounds so much less stressful than trying to do everything at the last minute. Thanks for mentioning the exact address too - 325 Superior Ave E is definitely going on my list for when I finally make that trip downtown!
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Fatima Al-Qasimi
I completely feel your pain about navigating the IRS system - it really can feel like an impossible maze sometimes! As someone who's dealt with similar tax complications, I'd strongly recommend calling that Armed Forces Tax Council hotline (1-877-645-8293) that Zoe mentioned before scheduling an in-person appointment. Military families have access to specialized tax assistance that most people don't know about, and they understand the unique challenges of PCS moves and multi-state filing requirements. I had a friend who avoided a lengthy downtown appointment entirely by getting her military tax situation resolved through their phone consultation service. They can often handle complex military tax issues remotely and might save you the hassle of dealing with Cleveland's appointment backlog. Plus, if they determine you do need an in-person visit, they can provide specific guidance on exactly what documents to bring and which type of IRS assistance you actually need. Worth a try before going through the downtown office appointment process!
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Hunter Edmunds
ā¢This is exactly the kind of advice I needed to hear! I've been so focused on trying to get that Cleveland appointment that I didn't even think to explore the military-specific resources first. The idea that I might be able to resolve this remotely through the Armed Forces Tax Council sounds almost too good to be true, but it makes so much sense. Military families do have unique situations that regular IRS staff might not be as familiar with. I'm definitely going to try calling that hotline before I commit to the downtown appointment process. Even if they can't handle everything over the phone, at least I'll know exactly what I'm walking into and what documents I absolutely need. Thank you for the encouragement - sometimes you just need someone to remind you that there might be an easier path through the maze!
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