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Sean Murphy

What is willful misconduct unemployment - Washington ESD denied my claim

My Washington ESD claim got denied for 'willful misconduct' and I'm completely confused about what this even means. I was fired from my warehouse job last month for being late three times in two weeks, but I had legitimate reasons each time (car trouble, sick kid, etc.). The denial letter from Washington ESD just says willful misconduct without explaining how being late counts as that. Can someone help me understand what qualifies as willful misconduct for unemployment? I thought you could only get denied if you quit or got fired for something really serious like stealing. This seems unfair since I was trying my best to get to work on time.

Willful misconduct for Washington ESD means you deliberately violated company policies or acted in a way that shows disregard for your employer's interests. Being chronically late can qualify if your employer had a clear attendance policy and warned you about violations. The key word is 'willful' - it has to be intentional or show a pattern of disregard.

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But how is having car trouble willful? I couldn't control that my car broke down. This doesn't make sense to me.

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The willful part isn't about the individual incidents, it's about the pattern. If you kept being late without taking steps to prevent it (like leaving earlier, finding backup transportation), Washington ESD might see that as willful disregard for your job requirements.

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I had a similar situation and was able to appeal successfully. The key is proving you didn't act willfully. Did your employer give you written warnings about attendance? Did they have a progressive discipline policy? If they fired you without proper warnings, that can help your case.

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I got one verbal warning after the second time but nothing in writing. How do I prove what warnings I did or didn't get?

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Request your personnel file from your former employer. They're required to provide it. Also gather any documentation about your car problems - repair receipts, towing records, anything that shows the issues were legitimate.

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Getting through to Washington ESD to discuss willful misconduct determinations is nearly impossible with their phone system. I spent weeks trying to reach someone about my own misconduct denial. Finally used Claimyr.com to get connected to an actual agent who could explain the specific reasons for my denial. They have a video demo at https://youtu.be/7DieNd3C7zQ that shows how it works. Made all the difference in understanding my options.

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Never heard of Claimyr but anything is better than sitting on hold for hours with Washington ESD. How much does it cost?

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It's worth checking out their site for details. The main thing is you actually get to talk to someone who can explain your specific situation instead of guessing what Washington ESD is thinking.

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willful misconduct is basically when you do something on purpose that gets you fired. like if you steal or fight with coworkers or just stop showing up. being late a few times seems harsh but maybe they had warned you before?

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That's what I thought too but apparently chronic lateness counts. I never knew that was considered misconduct.

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It depends on the circumstances. Three times in two weeks after previous warnings could definitely qualify as willful misconduct under Washington ESD guidelines.

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The misconduct determination also depends on whether your lateness actually harmed your employer. If you worked alone or your late arrival didn't affect operations, that can be argued. But if you were in a role where being on time was critical (like opening a store or relieving another worker), Washington ESD is more likely to uphold the misconduct finding.

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I was supposed to be there at 6 AM to help with truck unloading. When I was late, other people had to cover for me. I guess that probably counts as affecting operations.

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That does make it harder to argue, but you can still appeal if you have documentation of the legitimate reasons for your lateness and evidence that you were trying to resolve the underlying issues.

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MISCONDUCT DENIALS ARE THE WORST!! Washington ESD makes it so hard to understand what actually qualifies. I got denied for 'insubordination' because I questioned a safety procedure that seemed dangerous. Apparently asking questions is misconduct now. The whole system is set up to deny as many claims as possible.

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I feel you. Got denied for misconduct too and it took months to appeal successfully. The initial determination is often wrong but they make the appeal process so difficult that people just give up.

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Exactly! They count on people not knowing their rights or being too overwhelmed to fight it.

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You have 30 days from the date on your denial letter to file an appeal. Don't wait because that deadline is strict. The appeal process lets you present your side of the story and provide documentation that Washington ESD didn't have when they made the initial determination.

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How do I file the appeal? Is there a specific form or do I just write a letter?

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You can appeal online through your Washington ESD account or mail in a written request. Include any documentation that supports your case - medical records, repair receipts, communication with your employer, etc.

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I won my misconduct appeal by proving my employer failed to follow their own progressive discipline policy. They fired me after one incident without the warnings their employee handbook required. Washington ESD overturned the misconduct finding because the termination itself was improper.

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That's smart. I should check if my old job had a handbook or written policies about attendance. I never really paid attention to that stuff.

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Definitely get a copy of their employee handbook and any attendance policies. If they didn't follow their own procedures, that strengthens your appeal significantly.

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The timing of your misconduct matters too. If the incidents that led to your firing happened over a long period with good work in between, that can show the behavior wasn't a pattern of willful disregard. But three times in two weeks looks like a pattern to Washington ESD unfortunately.

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Yeah the timing definitely looks bad. I had been on time for months before this happened though. Does that count for anything?

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It can help show that the recent incidents were due to extraordinary circumstances rather than a pattern of misconduct. Include that information in your appeal.

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Also worth noting that even if Washington ESD upholds the misconduct finding, you might still be eligible for benefits after a disqualification period. The length depends on the severity of the misconduct. It's not necessarily a permanent denial.

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How long is the disqualification usually? I can't afford to be without income for months.

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It varies but typically ranges from a few weeks to several months depending on the specific misconduct. Check your denial letter for details about any disqualification period.

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Had to use that Claimyr service someone mentioned earlier to finally understand my own misconduct case. The Washington ESD agent explained that they look at the totality of circumstances, not just the final incident. Really helped me prepare better documentation for my appeal hearing.

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Did you end up winning your appeal after talking to them?

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Yes, but it took presenting a lot more evidence than I originally thought I needed. The agent helped me understand exactly what Washington ESD was looking for in terms of proof.

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Mei Liu

misconduct is such a broad term though. i've seen people get denied for things that seem totally unfair while others who clearly deserved to be fired still get benefits. the whole system seems inconsistent

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It really depends on how well you document your case and whether you understand what Washington ESD is actually looking for in their determination.

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Mei Liu

true but they don't exactly make it clear what they're looking for until after they deny you

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The key with willful misconduct is proving you acted reasonably under the circumstances. Car trouble, family emergencies, health issues - these can all be legitimate defenses if you can document them and show you were trying to address the underlying problems.

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I have the receipts from when my car was in the shop but I didn't think to save proof about my kid being sick. Is there any way to get that documentation now?

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You might be able to get records from your child's doctor or school if they were involved. Even just a written statement from you explaining the circumstances can help if you don't have official documentation.

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Remember that the burden of proof is on your employer to show misconduct, not on you to prove innocence. Washington ESD should have gotten their side of the story, but if their evidence is weak or incomplete, that works in your favor on appeal.

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That's good to know. My former supervisor really didn't like me so I wouldn't be surprised if they exaggerated things to Washington ESD.

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If you suspect bias or false information, that's definitely something to address in your appeal. Provide any evidence of workplace conflicts or unfair treatment.

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Just went through this whole process myself. The appeals hearing is actually pretty fair if you come prepared. The administrative law judge asked detailed questions about company policies, my work history, and the specific circumstances. Having documentation made all the difference.

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How long did it take from filing the appeal to getting a decision?

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About 6 weeks total, but that included a phone hearing. The timeline can vary depending on their current caseload.

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One thing people don't realize is that you can request to see all the information Washington ESD used to make their misconduct determination. This includes any statements from your employer. Sometimes seeing exactly what they claimed can help you prepare a better response.

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How do I request that information? Is there a specific form?

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You can request it through your online account or by calling Washington ESD. It's part of your right to due process in the appeals process.

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honestly the whole misconduct thing seems designed to trip people up. most workers don't know what counts as misconduct until after they get fired and denied benefits. wish there was better education about these rules before people need them

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Agreed. A lot of this could be avoided if employers were required to clearly explain how their policies relate to unemployment eligibility.

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exactly, most people just assume getting fired automatically disqualifies you from unemployment which isn't true at all

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For what it's worth, chronic lateness is one of the more defensible types of misconduct if you have legitimate reasons and documentation. Washington ESD sees a lot of cases where people were genuinely trying to get to work but faced circumstances beyond their control. Your car trouble and family situation could definitely support an appeal.

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Thanks, that gives me some hope. I was starting to think I had no chance at all.

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Don't give up. The initial determination isn't final, and appeals often go better for claimants than people expect. Just make sure you meet that 30-day deadline.

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Another option if your appeal doesn't work is to reapply for benefits after the disqualification period ends. Sometimes circumstances change or you can provide better documentation the second time around. Don't assume one denial means you're permanently ineligible.

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Good point. Even if I lose the appeal, it's not necessarily the end of the road.

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Exactly. Washington ESD processes thousands of these cases, and they do make mistakes. Persistence often pays off if you have a legitimate case.

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Used Claimyr again recently when I had questions about requalifying after a misconduct disqualification. The agent walked me through exactly what Washington ESD would be looking for in a new application. Really helpful to get that inside perspective on how they evaluate these cases.

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I think I'm going to try that service. Seems like talking to someone who understands the system could save me a lot of time and stress.

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It's definitely worth it if you're feeling overwhelmed by the process. They can explain things in plain English instead of bureaucratic language.

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