ESD denied my claim - fired for tardiness but employer violated their own policy
I'm completely frustrated with my situation and hoping someone can help. I was terminated from my job at a logistics company last month, and now ESD has denied my unemployment claim. Here's what happened: My employer had a very clear tardiness policy in the employee handbook - 3 tardies in a month = 2-day suspension, and termination only happens after another tardy following the suspension. I did hit 3 tardies in April (all under 10 minutes), and instead of giving me the suspension as their policy stated, they just fired me on a phone call. What's worse, during that call my manager mentioned 'performance issues' and 'not being a good fit' - not the tardiness. Now my employer is telling ESD the reason was excessive tardiness in violation of company policy, which isn't true since they skipped the suspension step! Has anyone dealt with something like this? Can I appeal on the grounds that they didn't follow their own written policy?
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Ali Anderson
this happend to me 2!! company handbook said one thing but they did another. u definitely need 2 appeal, they cant just make up rules as they go
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Sean Matthews
•Thanks for responding. Did you win your appeal? I'm worried about going through the whole process and still getting denied.
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Zadie Patel
Absolutely file an appeal. I got denied initially too and appealed when my employer misrepresented things. You have a strong case since you have a written policy they didn't follow. When you file the appeal, emphasize that specific point - they had a progressive discipline policy they violated. Also mention how they gave different reasons during the termination call versus what they told ESD. That inconsistency helps your case. Keep it factual and unemotional, and be prepared with dates of the tardies and a copy of the employee handbook if you have it.
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Sean Matthews
•Thank you for the detailed advice. I do have a digital copy of the handbook with the policy highlighted. Should I submit that with my appeal? And do you know how long the appeal process typically takes? I'm getting really anxious about bills piling up.
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Zadie Patel
•Yes, definitely submit the handbook with your appeal! Circle or highlight the relevant policy. The timeline varies but expect 4-8 weeks for a hearing to be scheduled. In the meantime, keep filing your weekly claims even while waiting for the appeal - this is CRUCIAL. If you win, they'll pay those weeks retroactively.
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A Man D Mortal
This is a textbook case for appeal. Washington is pretty strict about employers following their own discipline policies. You'll need to request a hearing with the Office of Administrative Hearings (OAH). They'll send you notice with the date/time, and it'll probably be by phone. Have your evidence ready - handbook policy, dates of tardiness, notes from that termination call showing they mentioned other reasons. During the hearing, stay calm and stick to facts. Definitely keep filing weekly claims while waiting for the appeal decision.
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Sean Matthews
•Thank you for explaining the process. I'm going to file the appeal tonight. I've been trying to call ESD directly to ask questions but can't get through - their phone lines are constantly busy or disconnect me after 2 hours on hold. It's maddening!
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Declan Ramirez
•Try Claimyr to get through to ESD! I was in the same boat - couldn't get anyone to answer for weeks. Their service connected me to an ESD agent in under 25 minutes. Saved my sanity! They have a video demo at https://youtu.be/7DieNd3C7zQ?si=26TzE_zGms-DODN3 showing how it works. For situations like yours where you need specific advice before filing an appeal, talking to an actual agent makes a huge difference.
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Emma Morales
I've heard ppl winning appeals based on exactly this!!! companies HAVE to follow their own written policies or it can be considered wrongful termination. my cousin works for L&I and she says this happens ALL THE TIME where employers try to deny UI by changing their story. if u have that handbook save it and screenshot it ASAP before they try changing it!!! the judge will want to see it.
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Katherine Hunter
•This isn't entirely accurate. Washington is an at-will employment state, so technically they can fire for almost any reason or no reason. HOWEVER, not following their own policy can definitely help win an unemployment appeal because it shows the firing wasn't for misconduct. There's an important distinction between wrongful termination (which is hard to prove) and qualifying for unemployment (which has a lower bar).
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Lucas Parker
THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS RIGGED AGAINST WORKERS!!! I went through 3 appeals and ESD sided with my employer EVERY TIME even tho I had proof they were lying. These big companies have lawyers and HR teams who know exactly what to say to deny your benefits. They'll claim anything to avoid their UI tax rates going up. The handbook policy helps but don't get your hopes up too much. ESD is NOT on our side!!!
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A Man D Mortal
•I understand your frustration, but that hasn't been my experience. The appeals judges I've encountered have been fair and focused on facts. Having clear documentation like the OP's employee handbook can make a significant difference in these cases. While the system isn't perfect, many claimants do win their appeals when employers don't follow their own policies.
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Lucas Parker
•Maybe YOU got lucky but I sure didn't. Waited 7 weeks for my hearing just to have the judge completely ignore my evidence. The whole thing is arbitrary and depends which judge you get. Just warning OP not to count on the money until it's actually in their account!!!
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Zadie Patel
One more thing I forgot to mention - in your appeal, specifically cite WAC 192-150-200 which covers discharge for absenteeism or tardiness. It basically says if an employer has a progressive discipline policy but doesn't follow it, then the discharge might not be considered misconduct. This regulation is literally designed for situations like yours.
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Sean Matthews
•This is incredibly helpful - thank you! I just looked up that regulation and it fits my situation perfectly. I'll definitely cite this in my appeal. If anyone needs this in the future, here's what it says: if the employer has a progressive discipline policy for tardiness but doesn't follow it before firing you, it may not be considered misconduct for unemployment purposes.
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Donna Cline
I went through something similar last year. The appeal process was stressful but I ultimately won. Make sure you're keeping detailed records of everything right now - save emails, texts, and write down your recollection of conversations while they're fresh. In my hearing, the judge asked very detailed questions about dates and times. Also, I was able to get a former coworker to provide a statement confirming the company handbook policy, which really helped my case. Do you have anyone who could corroborate your understanding of the policy?
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Sean Matthews
•That's a great idea. I have a good relationship with my former team lead who was always fair with me. I could ask if she'd be willing to confirm the policy was applied inconsistently. I'm a bit nervous about the hearing process - did you have representation or did you handle it yourself? I'm worried about saying the wrong thing.
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Donna Cline
•I represented myself, but I prepared a LOT. The judges are used to people without lawyers. They'll guide you through the process. Just stick to the facts, answer questions directly, and don't get emotional (even if your employer says things that aren't true). Having that team lead's testimony could be huge - even a written statement from them about the policy would help.
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