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This thread is super helpful for me too!! Im in a similar spot but Im only 60 - lost my hubby last year and trying to figurre out when to take which benefit. So confused!!
At 60, your situation would be a bit different. If you take survivor benefits early (before your FRA), they're reduced permanently. And if you're still working, you might be subject to the earnings test which could reduce benefits. For someone younger than FRA, it's often best to take the smaller benefit first and switch later, but this really depends on your specific situation and benefit amounts.
I just wanted to update everyone. I finally got through to a supervisor at SSA who confirmed that YES, I can take ONLY survivor benefits at my FRA without taking my own retirement benefits. She explained I need to be very explicit when applying that I'm only applying for widow's benefits. Thank you all for your help and advice - it gave me the confidence to keep pushing for a clear answer!
That's great news! Make sure to get the supervisor's name and direct extension if possible for when you actually file. Also request a written confirmation of this policy if they can provide it. When you do file, review all paperwork carefully before signing to ensure it only shows an application for survivor benefits. Glad you got the right information!
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I HATE how the government makes these arbitrary cutoffs!!! My sister lost benefits after 9.5 years of marriage to an abusive husband she HAD to leave for her safety!!! Now shes struggling on minimal SS while her ex gets to live comfortably. The whole system is RIGGED against vulnerable people, especially women who may have stayed home or worked less to raise kids. 10 years or nothing is CRUEL and your father's wife is about to learn how heartless our system really is. Sorry to be negative but it makes my blood BOIL.
While I understand your frustration, the 10-year rule exists to create a clear standard for when marriage is considered long-term enough to create permanent benefit entitlements. Without some cutoff, benefits administration would be impossible. The real problem is that many people don't understand these rules BEFORE making divorce decisions. In cases of abuse, there should perhaps be exceptions, but for standard divorces, people need to consider the financial implications of timing.
Thank you all for the helpful responses. I've learned a lot and will share this information with both my dad and his soon-to-be ex. It sounds like she definitely needs to be proactive about contacting SSA as soon as the divorce is finalized to see what benefits she might qualify for on her own record. I'll also suggest they discuss some kind of temporary financial arrangement in the divorce settlement to help her transition, since the spousal benefits will end. I appreciate everyone sharing their experiences and knowledge!
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why does the government do this?? seems like there just trying to take money from people who already paid in. my neighbors ex wife is a teacher and shes always complaining about this stuff
The rationale behind GPO is about proportional benefits. Social Security spousal/survivor benefits were designed to provide for families where one spouse might have limited or no earnings. The formula assumes the person is not receiving another pension. Since many public employees don't pay Social Security taxes on their government earnings, they're effectively outside the Social Security system for those years. Without GPO, someone could work for 30 years in non-covered employment, pay little or nothing into Social Security, yet receive the same spousal benefits as someone who worked and paid Social Security taxes their entire career. That said, many argue that the 2/3 reduction is too severe and unfairly impacts public servants. There are regular legislative attempts to modify or repeal these provisions.
Has anyone here actually had success getting the GPO removed or reduced?? I read somewhere that if you work your last 5 years in a job covered by Social Security the GPO doesn't apply?? Is that true??
Unfortunately, that's a common misconception. The "last 5 years" rule you're thinking of actually applies to WEP, not GPO, and even then it's quite restrictive. To be exempt from WEP, you need 30+ years of "substantial earnings" under Social Security (not just 5 years at the end of your career). For GPO, there is a narrow exemption if you're a government employee whose pension is from a job where you WERE paying Social Security taxes. But for typical state/local government pensions where you weren't paying into Social Security (like many teacher pensions), GPO will still apply regardless of other work you do. I've never heard of anyone successfully getting GPO removed unless they truly qualified for one of the legal exemptions.
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CALL THE SSA NOW AND GET A WRITTEN ESTIMATE!!! Don't trust what people tell you online!! My sister got TERRIBLE advice about this exact situation and it cost her thousands!!!
You're right - I should get something official from SSA. I'll try calling them this week.
The most accurate way to understand your specific situation is to request a WEP calculation from SSA based on your projected teaching pension (if any). Here's what you need to know: 1. It's all about whether you'll receive a pension from Kentucky. The standard vesting period is 5 years of service credit. As a substitute teacher working 2-3 days a week, you'd likely need 7-10 calendar years to reach that threshold. 2. If you don't vest and receive no pension, WEP/GPO won't affect your Social Security benefits at all. 3. If you do eventually vest, the WEP reduction is limited by two factors: - The more years of "substantial earnings" under Social Security (you have 35+), the smaller the WEP reduction - The maximum WEP reduction in 2025 is about $557 per month 4. The Social Security Fairness Act has been reintroduced in Congress multiple times. The current version (H.R. 82) has not been passed yet. If it does pass, it would phase out WEP/GPO entirely. I suggest creating an account at my.ssa.gov if you haven't already, where you can see personalized estimates.
This is incredibly helpful - thank you! I do have a my.ssa.gov account, but it doesn't show anything about potential WEP reductions. I'm pretty sure I won't reach 5 years of service in the Kentucky system, so it sounds like I don't need to worry about this affecting my benefits.
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my sister waited till 67 to get her spousal benefit and got the full 50%. my brother-in-law tried at 63 and got way less. just depends if u need the money now i guess
To answer your question about survivor benefits more specifically: If your husband passes away, you would be eligible for survivor benefits, which can be up to 100% of what he was receiving (not the 50% limit of spousal benefits). However, if you claim survivor benefits before your FRA, they would be reduced. Unlike with retirement benefits, you can actually claim survivor benefits as early as age 60 (or 50 if disabled). At 60, you'd receive about 71.5% of your deceased spouse's benefit, and the percentage increases until you reach FRA, when you'd get 100%. The rules for survivor benefits are different from spousal benefits in several important ways. You can also switch between your own retirement benefit and survivor benefits at different times to maximize your lifetime benefits.
Thank you! This is really helpful information. I think I need to carefully consider whether the permanent reduction is worth getting benefits earlier. It sounds like there's a significant financial advantage to waiting until FRA if I can manage it.
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After thinking about your situation more, one more important factor: the 4% rule for retirement withdrawals suggests you can safely withdraw about 4% of your nest egg annually. If your SS payment would be $1,200/month higher by waiting ($14,400/year), that's equivalent to having an additional $360,000 in retirement savings ($14,400 ÷ 0.04). This perspective often helps people see the true value of delayed Social Security benefits. If you had an extra $360K in your retirement account, would you be more comfortable?
Wow, I hadn't thought about it that way! Putting it in terms of equivalent retirement savings makes the delayed credits seem much more valuable. When you frame it as essentially having $360K more in my retirement account, waiting to 70 sounds like a no-brainer given my family history.
everyone keeps talking bout the MATH but what about ENJOYING LIFE?? my brother waited to 70 and then got cancer at 71... all that waiting for nothin. just my 2 cents
I'm very sorry about your brother. That's definitely the fear I have too - waiting and then not getting to enjoy it for very long. It's the uncertainty that makes this such a tough decision.
This is a valid perspective that highlights the personal nature of this decision. The mathematical optimization approach assumes longevity, but life has no guarantees. Each person needs to balance the statistical likelihood of living longer (especially with family history of longevity) against the desire to enjoy benefits earlier.
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OMG I remember going thru this! The whole time I'm like "I'M APPLYING FOR MY OWN BENEFITS WHY DO YOU NEED MY RELATIONSHIP HISTORY??" lol. I think its cause they need to make sure nobody else can claim on ur record? I just put estimates for my dates and it worked fine. Never had to send anything in.
EXACTLY!!! It feels so invasive! The government already has all this info somewhere anyway!
To clarify some of the conflicting information in this thread: 1. SSA's requirements can vary based on your specific situation and who processes your application 2. The safest approach is to provide as much accurate information as possible in your initial application 3. If you can only provide approximate dates, include a note explaining why (e.g., "Records unavailable, divorce occurred approximately June 1985") 4. For marriages that ended 20+ years ago, SSA is sometimes more flexible about documentation 5. Be prepared that an SSA representative might contact you for additional information For your online application, you can proceed with your best estimates, but be responsive if they request additional information.
Thank you, this is helpful! I'll go ahead with my best estimates and include notes explaining the situation. I appreciate everyone's help with this confusing process.
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I started receiving my deceased husband's benefits right after he died but i was already 68 so no issues with working. The whole process took about 45 days from application to first deposit. Make sure u have certified copies of everything they ask for.
One more important point - you mentioned your HR department is pressuring you about retirement plans. Just to be clear, collecting Social Security survivor benefits doesn't require you to retire from your job. You can work indefinitely while collecting survivor benefits once you reach your FRA of 66 and 8 months. Also, when you apply, make sure SSA compares your own benefit amount to your wife's. They should pay you the higher of the two. And if you delay your own retirement benefit until 70 while collecting survivors now, be aware that you'll need to proactively apply for your retirement benefit when you reach 70 - the switch isn't automatic.
This is really helpful, thank you. I'm going to make an appointment with HR to clarify that I plan to continue working even after I start collecting survivor benefits. And I'll definitely mark my calendar to apply for my own benefits at 70 if that ends up being the better option.
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just remember that medicare premiums might be higher if ur making more money!! they have that IRMAA thing where if u make over certain amount they charge more for part B
This is a very important point. Income-Related Monthly Adjustment Amount (IRMAA) can significantly increase your Medicare Part B and Part D premiums if your income exceeds certain thresholds. For 2025, if your modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) from 2023 tax return exceeds $97,000 (single) or $194,000 (married filing jointly), your Part B premiums will be higher than the standard amount. With your combined income from work and Social Security, you might want to calculate if you'll be close to these thresholds.
I'm so confused about all this FRA stuff!!! Is that the same as the retirement age? I'm 62 and thinking about taking my benefits early but I'm still working part time at Walmart. Will they reduce my benefits? I make about $22,000 a year.
FRA stands for Full Retirement Age, which is different for everyone based on their birth year. For people born 1960 or later, FRA is 67. For those born earlier, it's between 66 and 67. At 62, you're taking benefits before your FRA, so yes, the earnings limit would apply to you. In 2025, if you earn more than $21,240, your benefits will be reduced by $1 for every $2 you earn above that limit. With your $22,000 income, you'd be $760 over the limit, so your annual benefits would be reduced by $380 (or about $32 per month). Additionally, by claiming early at 62, your benefit amount is permanently reduced by about a 5/9 of one percent for each month before your FRA (up to 36 months) and then 5/12 of one percent beyond that. This can mean up to a 30% permanent reduction compared to waiting until your FRA.
Omar Hassan
my mom worked after FRA and she said everythng over like $80k combined made her SS taxable at the full 85%. but she said its still worth working cause the extra money even after taxes was way more than just living on SS alone
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StarSurfer
•That's a good point - even with the taxes, I'm still coming out ahead by working. I enjoy my job anyway, so I planned to continue for a few more years. I just wanted to budget correctly and understand the tax implications.
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Sean Kelly
To clarify a key point that comes up frequently in these discussions: the taxation of Social Security benefits and the earnings test are two completely separate concepts: 1. The earnings test only applies BEFORE Full Retirement Age and can reduce your benefits if you earn over certain limits. 2. Taxation of benefits can apply at ANY age and is based on your combined income (AGI + nontaxable interest + half of SS benefits). Reaching FRA eliminates the earnings test, but doesn't impact taxation. Many beneficiaries confuse these two distinct policies. It's also worth noting that these tax thresholds ($25,000/$34,000 for singles) haven't been adjusted for inflation since they were introduced in 1984, so they affect more beneficiaries each year.
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Freya Christensen
•And THAT'S the real scandal! Those income thresholds from 1984 would be over TWICE as high if they were indexed for inflation! Just another example of how the system is rigged against seniors. They never update the thresholds, so more and more of us get our benefits taxed every year as inflation pushes our incomes up!
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