Social Security Windfall Elimination - when does it impact survivor benefits for widow vs. children?

Thank you so much for clarifying! So my kids' benefits are safe - that's such a relief. I was worried I'd have to budget for a sudden reduction. When you say my widow's benefits would be reduced by GPO later, does that happen even if I wait until my full retirement age to claim them?

Thanks for sharing that real-world example. It's reassuring to hear that other families in similar situations didn't see their children's benefits affected!

This is so confusing!! So basically if you have a good pension you get nothing from SS?? That seems really unfair after paying into the system for years!!

Remember, the issue is that teachers in many states don't pay into Social Security for those teaching years. The pension they receive is instead of Social Security, not in addition to it. The GPO reduction is designed to put government workers in roughly the same position as workers who paid into Social Security their whole careers. But yes, if you have a substantial government pension from non-covered work, you may receive reduced spousal/widow benefits or none at all due to GPO.

Thank you for sharing your experience! It's so frustrating how inconsistent the information can be. I'll definitely look into that service if I need to call again. Did you have any luck finding someone at SSA who specialized in GPO/WEP questions? I'm wondering if I should ask for a technical expert when I call.

Yes! The key was asking specifically for someone who specializes in government pensions and WEP/GPO. Regular claims reps often aren't fully trained on these complex rules. When I finally got connected to a technical expert, she explained everything clearly and even calculated my estimated future benefits with the GPO reduction factored in.

It can certainly feel unfair, but there's some logic behind it. The issue is that in many states, teachers don't pay Social Security taxes on their teaching income. Since they're not contributing to the system through those jobs, the GPO adjusts spousal/survivor benefits accordingly. Without the GPO, government employees with non-covered pensions would actually receive proportionally more from Social Security than people who paid into the system their entire careers. That said, there are ongoing legislative efforts to reform or repeal GPO and WEP because of their harsh impact on public servants like teachers. The Social Security Fairness Act gets reintroduced regularly in Congress, though it hasn't passed yet.

yeah but my aunt did work other jobs where she paid in but she still gets barely anything because of her teacher pension. just feels wrong

Thank you for that clear breakdown! I did work in the private sector for about 8 years before becoming a teacher, so I should qualify for some small retirement benefit on my own record. I'll definitely compare the numbers when the time comes. Is there any benefit to meeting with SSA in person to discuss these calculations, or are they just as limited in their knowledge in the office as on the phone?

In-person appointments can sometimes be more productive, especially for complex situations involving WEP/GPO. You can bring all your documentation and take notes. When making the appointment, specifically request someone experienced with government pension offset calculations. Also, request a Social Security Statement beforehand through your my Social Security account. It won't show the GPO reduction, but it will give you baseline numbers to discuss during your appointment. Some SSA offices have technical experts who understand these provisions better than regular claims representatives.

The rationale behind GPO is about proportional benefits. Social Security spousal/survivor benefits were designed to provide for families where one spouse might have limited or no earnings. The formula assumes the person is not receiving another pension. Since many public employees don't pay Social Security taxes on their government earnings, they're effectively outside the Social Security system for those years. Without GPO, someone could work for 30 years in non-covered employment, pay little or nothing into Social Security, yet receive the same spousal benefits as someone who worked and paid Social Security taxes their entire career. That said, many argue that the 2/3 reduction is too severe and unfairly impacts public servants. There are regular legislative attempts to modify or repeal these provisions.

Unfortunately, that's a common misconception. The "last 5 years" rule you're thinking of actually applies to WEP, not GPO, and even then it's quite restrictive. To be exempt from WEP, you need 30+ years of "substantial earnings" under Social Security (not just 5 years at the end of your career). For GPO, there is a narrow exemption if you're a government employee whose pension is from a job where you WERE paying Social Security taxes. But for typical state/local government pensions where you weren't paying into Social Security (like many teacher pensions), GPO will still apply regardless of other work you do. I've never heard of anyone successfully getting GPO removed unless they truly qualified for one of the legal exemptions.

Thank you for mentioning the hybrid systems - that's something I hadn't considered! I started teaching in 2008 in Pennsylvania, so I should definitely check with my pension administrator about whether any of my teaching years involved Social Security contributions. Even a small reduction in the GPO impact would be helpful. I do have a my Social Security account and have been tracking my earnings, but you're right that it doesn't show the GPO calculations. It's good to know that having this information will help me make better decisions down the road about timing and which benefits to claim. The reassurance about my kids' benefits being safe really helps me focus on the future planning rather than worrying about immediate impacts. Thank you for the educator perspective!