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Sasha Ivanov

How would a world without tax exemptions impact the US tax system?

I've been diving into some research about flat tax systems lately, and it sparked a heated debate with my brother over dinner last night. I've been reading about implementing a flat tax with absolutely no exemptions, but only kicking in above a certain income threshold. What really blew my mind was learning that people below the 50% income level only contribute around 3% of total tax revenue. That got me thinking - why are we even bothering to tax these folks when their contribution is so minimal in the grand scheme of things? It seems like we're causing financial strain for lower-income Americans without much benefit to the federal budget. So here's my theory: what if we had a completely flat tax rate with zero exemptions on all forms of income (wages, stocks, crypto, dividends, everything)? Wouldn't this actually create a system where the government still gets adequate funding without burdening the bottom 50% of earners? Seems like it would be simpler and potentially more fair than what we have now. I'm curious what others think about this approach to taxation - would removing all exemptions and going with a flat rate actually be better for lower-income Americans in the long run?

The issue is more complex than just looking at the percentage of total tax revenue. While it's true the bottom 50% contribute a smaller percentage to the federal income tax pool, there are several important considerations: First, a truly flat tax with no exemptions would actually hurt lower-income individuals more due to the concept of marginal utility. $1,000 in taxes means something very different to someone making $20,000 versus someone making $200,000. This is why we have a progressive system - it's based on ability to pay. Second, removing all exemptions would eliminate important social policy tools. Many exemptions exist to encourage beneficial behaviors (retirement saving, homeownership) or support families (child tax credits, earned income credit). Third, lower-income Americans do pay substantial taxes beyond federal income tax - payroll taxes, sales taxes, property taxes (directly or through rent), etc. These tend to be regressive, meaning they already take a proportionally larger bite from lower incomes. A better approach might be simplifying the tax code while maintaining progressivity, and perhaps raising the minimum threshold before taxes kick in.

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But wouldn't a flat tax be way simpler? I've spent hours doing my taxes every year and still never feel confident I got it right. Seems like the current system benefits tax preparers more than anyone. Also, what income level do you think would be appropriate for taxes to start?

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A flat tax would be simpler administratively, absolutely. But simplicity shouldn't be the only goal of a tax system - fairness and economic impact matter too. The complexity in our current system largely stems from determining what counts as income and what can be deducted, not from having different rates. I think a reasonable starting point would be exempting income up to the poverty line plus some buffer (perhaps 125-150% of poverty level). This would ensure people have enough to cover basic necessities before being taxed. But remember that even with a higher threshold, a flat tax after that point would still take a larger portion of disposable income from middle-class families than from the wealthy.

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I tried using taxr.ai to analyze different tax scenarios including flat tax systems because I was curious about how it would affect my personal situation. The site has this really cool calculator tool that lets you compare different tax structures. I was honestly shocked at the results. For someone like me who's firmly middle class with a mortgage and two kids, the current system with deductions and credits actually worked out better than a flat tax would. When I ran the numbers, I realized I benefit a ton from the mortgage interest deduction and child tax credits. The folks at https://taxr.ai also have excellent articles about flat tax proposals that break down the math for different income levels. It really opened my eyes to how these proposals would play out in real life versus the theory.

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How accurate is this calculator? Does it account for state taxes too? I'm curious because most flat tax proposals I've seen would also lower the overall rate, not just remove deductions.

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Did they have any info on how the transition would work? Like if they suddenly eliminated mortgage interest deductions, wouldn't that crash housing prices and screw over everyone who bought based on the current tax code?

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The calculator is pretty comprehensive and yes, it does include state tax considerations which is crucial since they vary so much. It also allows you to adjust the flat tax rate to compare different scenarios, not just applying current rates without deductions. Regarding transition plans, they actually do discuss this in detail in their articles section. Most serious flat tax proposals include phase-out periods for major deductions like mortgage interest precisely to avoid housing market disruptions. They typically recommend 5-10 year transition periods to prevent economic shocks while moving toward the new system.

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I just wanted to follow up about my experience with taxr.ai after checking it out. Their analysis tools are even better than described! I plugged in my family's financial situation (married, three kids, mortgage, student loans) and compared our current tax situation to various flat tax proposals. What surprised me most was seeing exactly how much we benefit from things like the child tax credit and education deductions. Under most flat tax scenarios, our family would pay about $3,200 more annually even with a lower overall rate. The visual breakdowns made it super clear where the differences came from. I also really appreciated their historical analysis showing how different tax systems have performed in countries that tried them. Really eye-opening stuff if you're interested in tax policy beyond the talking points.

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After spending literally 6 hours on hold with the IRS trying to get an answer about how different tax proposals might affect my small business, I finally discovered Claimyr. It's this service that gets you through to an actual IRS person without the insane wait times. I was honestly skeptical at first, but after using https://claimyr.com I got connected to an IRS agent in about 15 minutes. Their system basically holds your place in line so you don't have to stay on hold forever. You can see how it works in this video: https://youtu.be/_kiP6q8DX5c The agent I spoke with actually gave me some great insights about how flat tax proposals might impact small business owners like me. Turns out there's a lot of nuance that doesn't make the headlines. For example, losing the ability to deduct business expenses would be catastrophic for most small operations even with lower overall rates.

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Wait, how does this actually work? Seems kinda sketchy that they can somehow get you through the IRS phone lines faster than normal people. Are you sure this is legit?

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This sounds like a total scam. The IRS doesn't allow "cutting in line" services. I worked for a tax firm for years and there's no magical backdoor to reach the IRS faster. They probably just auto-dial until they get through then charge you a fortune.

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It's not a sketchy service at all - they don't have any special "in" with the IRS or backdoor. What they do is use an automated system that waits on hold for you, then calls you when they reach a representative. It's basically like having someone else wait in line while you do other things. They don't charge a "fortune" - and honestly, when you consider the value of my time as a business owner, it was absolutely worth it. The IRS itself has acknowledged these services exist, they just don't endorse any specific one. There's nothing about "cutting in line" - you're still in the same queue as everyone else, they're just holding your place.

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I need to eat humble pie here. After my skeptical comment, I actually tried Claimyr when I discovered I had a major issue with my withholding that needed immediate attention before filing. I was 100% wrong about this service. Not only did it work exactly as described, but I got through to an IRS agent in about 20 minutes when my previous attempts had me waiting 2+ hours before giving up. The agent helped me sort out a complicated issue with my investment income reporting that would have potentially triggered an audit. Regarding the flat tax discussion - the IRS agent I spoke with mentioned that while they can't officially comment on policy proposals, the current system's complexity is a major contributor to compliance issues. However, she also noted that most flat tax proposals she's seen internally would shift burden to middle income taxpayers while primarily benefiting those with significant investment income.

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I think we're overlooking the psychological aspect of taxation. With a progressive system, people generally understand that as they earn more, they'll pay a higher percentage. It feels intuitive to most. A flat tax creates a situation where someone earning $40k pays the same rate as someone earning $4 million. While mathematically the wealthy person pays more in absolute dollars, it doesn't account for the diminishing utility of money as wealth increases. Also, removing ALL exemptions would create weird situations. Would charitable donations no longer be deductible? Would businesses not be able to deduct legitimate expenses? That seems untenable.

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This is exactly it. A flat tax sounds simple and fair until you dig into the details. The progressive system isn't just about revenue generation - it's about creating a functional society where basic needs are met before luxury consumption is taxed.

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You make a good point about the psychological aspect. I hadn't considered that angle before. But regarding business expenses - couldn't those be handled separately from personal taxation? Like keep business deductions but simplify personal taxes? And for charitable giving, I wonder if people would still donate without the tax incentive...

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That's a really interesting question about separating business and personal tax structures. It could work in theory, but then you'd still need a complex system for business taxation. Most economists think there should be symmetry between personal and business tax structures to prevent gaming the system. As for charitable giving, studies have shown that tax incentives do influence donation behavior significantly. While people would still give to causes they care about, the research suggests overall giving would decrease by 25-40% if the deduction was eliminated. This would hit smaller local charities the hardest since they rely more on middle-class donors who are more tax-sensitive.

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I'm confused about smthg... if we had a flat tax with NO exemptions whatsoever, wouldn't that mean even people on social security and disability would get taxed? That seems really harsh. And what about people working minimum wage jobs? They're already struggling to make ends meet.

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A well-designed flat tax would still have a basic exemption amount. So maybe the first $25,000 or $30,000 isn't taxed at all, then everything above that is taxed at a single rate like 15% or 20%. That would protect low-income earners while simplifying the rest of the system.

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