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So I'm in a bit of a financial mess here. About 3 years ago, I loaned my brother around $47,000 to help him start his landscaping business. We had a basic agreement (nothing fancy, just a signed paper saying he'd pay me back with minimal interest within 2 years). I wired him the money with "Business Loan - Greenscape Ventures" in the details. Fast forward to now - his business struggled from day one, eventually folded completely last year, and he's basically admitted he can't pay me back anything close to what I loaned him. Maybe a few thousand at most over the next several years. I'm wondering if there's any way I can write this off as a bad debt or some kind of loss on my taxes? I'm not a business myself, just a regular person who was trying to help family. I've still got the wire transfer receipt and our agreement. Would really appreciate any advice on whether this is deductible somehow since that money is basically gone. Thanks!
So I went through an audit about 6 months ago for my 2022 taxes. After several back-and-forth calls and document submissions, the auditor and I finally agreed on an amount I owed - about $3,800. I was actually relieved since I thought it might be worse. Fast forward to yesterday when I received a CP22 notice in the mail. I opened it expecting to see the $3,800 we had agreed upon, but instead it shows I owe $7,650! This is literally double what we agreed to during the audit process. I'm completely freaking out right now. Has anyone else experienced something like this? Did the IRS just decide to change the amount without telling me? I thought once we settled on a number in the audit, that was supposed to be final. Do I need to call them back? Should I get a tax attorney involved? I really can't afford to pay double what we agreed to.
For what it's worth, this happens more often than people realize with post-audit CP22 notices. The IRS systems don't always properly sync up the audit adjustments with their automated billing system. One tip that helped me: when you do get through to someone, ask them to document everything in your account notes. Then request a "record of account" transcript afterward to verify the corrections were properly noted in their system.
Can you request that transcript online or do you have to call again? This whole process gives me so much anxiety.
You can request a record of account transcript online through the IRS website if you have an online account set up. Go to irs.gov, log in to your account, and request the transcript. They usually process it within 5-10 business days. If you don't have an online account, you can also use Form 4506-T to request it by mail, but that takes longer (usually 2-3 weeks). The online method is definitely faster and easier if you're already set up with an online account.
Could this be penalty and interest on top of the original amount? When did you get the CP22 compared to when you agreed to the audit results? If it's been a while, the IRS adds penalties and interest which can really add up.
The audit concluded about 6 months ago, and I just got the CP22 yesterday. But even with penalties and interest, it shouldn't double the amount in just 6 months. The notice does break down some penalties and interest but the base amount itself is showing as around $6,800 instead of the $3,800 we agreed on during the audit. So something is definitely wrong with their calculations.
The IRS penalty rate is nowhere near 100% for 6 months. Even with the failure to pay penalty (0.5% per month) and interest (federal short-term rate plus 3%, currently around 7% annually), the most the penalties and interest should add is maybe 10-15% to the original amount over 6 months. Doubling the amount definitely indicates an error.
I'm in a mess with some Form 8300 penalties that I honestly think are completely unfair. Just found out yesterday that I might be able to request an audit reconsideration before having to shell out for penalties I don't think I should pay in the first place. Has anyone actually gone through this audit reconsideration process specifically for Form 8300? I run a small jewelry business and apparently messed up some cash transaction reporting, but I swear I was following the guidance my previous accountant gave me. The penalties are seriously steep - almost $27,000! I can't afford that right now with how business has been the past two years. Really need to know: - How long does the IRS typically take to respond to these reconsideration requests? - Did it actually work for anyone or am I just delaying the inevitable? - Should I try handling this myself or work with some kind of tax relief company? Feeling completely stressed about this whole situation and don't want to make any wrong moves that'll dig me deeper. If anyone has gone through something similar or knows a good professional who handles these cases, I'd appreciate any advice!
One thing nobody's mentioned yet - make sure you're documenting EVERYTHING during this Form 8300 audit reconsideration process. Keep records of all communications, copies of everything you send, certified mail receipts, etc. I went through this last year for my construction business and what ultimately saved me was having proof I'd actually sent in the original forms that the IRS claimed they never received. The penalties were about $35,000 and they dropped them completely once I provided proof of mailing. Also, the reconsideration took about 5 months in my case, and I did get several confusing letters during the process saying I still owed the penalties. Don't panic if that happens - just respond to each one referencing your reconsideration request.
Thanks for this tip! Did you end up getting any kind of confirmation that they received your reconsideration request? I'm worried about sending it and then it just disappearing into the void.
I did eventually get an acknowledgment letter about 3 weeks after sending my reconsideration request. It basically just said they received it and would respond within 90 days (which turned into 5 months, typical IRS). Make sure you send your request via certified mail with return receipt so you have proof they received it. I also included a cover letter specifically requesting an acknowledgment. If you don't hear anything after about 30 days, start calling to confirm they have your case in the system. This is where having that certified mail receipt becomes crucial - you can reference the delivery confirmation number.
Just went through this exact thing with Form 8300 penalties for my pawn shop. My advice - don't try to handle this yourself! The audit reconsideration process for these specific penalties is super technical. I hired a tax attorney who specializes in information reporting penalties (not one of those TV ad tax relief companies) and she got my penalties reduced from $42,000 to $4,500. Her fee was $3,000 so definitely worth it. The key was she knew exactly what documentation would constitute "reasonable cause" for my specific situation. The whole process took about 6 months from start to finish. Also, she advised me NOT to pay the penalties while we were fighting them, which turned out to be the right call in my case.
I just discovered what seems to be a bug in TurboTax when reporting the sale of my rental property. The software completely skips asking about any 1099-S during the interview process for the rental sale. While all the gross proceeds and cost basis information appears correctly further down on Form 4797, line 1a (which should show how much came from a 1099-S or 1099-B) is completely blank. My taxes have already been processed and I've received my refund, but I was checking my tax transcript and noticed in the 4797 section it shows $0.00 for 1099-S/1099-B amounts. This is definitely wrong since I received a 1099-S for the sale that was around $285,000. Even though the sale details and calculations appear correct elsewhere on the form, I'm worried that having line 1a blank might trigger something with the IRS. I've seen some people in forums mention this hasn't caused problems for them, but I'm nervous. Has anyone else run into this specific TurboTax bug with Form 4797 line 1a being empty despite having a 1099-S for a rental property sale? Any firsthand experience would be really helpful!
I ran into this exact problem when selling my rental in Phoenix last year. I noticed the 1099-S amount ($342,000) wasn't showing up on line 1a of Form 4797 even though TurboTax calculated everything correctly. I called TurboTax support and they acknowledged the bug but said they didn't have a fix for it. The support rep recommended I print the return, manually write in the 1099-S amount on line 1a, and mail it in instead of e-filing. That seemed like overkill to me, so I just e-filed as is. Never heard anything from the IRS about it, and that was for my 2023 return.
Did you consider filing an amended return after you noticed the issue? I'm wondering if I should do that since I just found this bug on my already-filed 2024 return.
I didn't file an amended return, and I wouldn't recommend doing so in your case either. An amended return should be used for substantial errors that affect your tax liability, not for missing information that doesn't impact the final calculations. Since the sale details are correctly reported elsewhere on Form 4797 and your tax calculation is accurate, filing an amended return would likely just create unnecessary complexity and potentially delay any refund you're expecting. In my case, the IRS processed my return without any issues despite the blank line 1a.
Has anyone tried calling the IRS directly about this issue rather than relying on forum advice? I have the same problem with a rental property I sold in 2024 for $198k, and my Form 4797 also shows $0 on line 1a even though I got a 1099-S.
From my experience talking with the IRS (mentioned in my comment above), they're well aware of this TurboTax bug. The agent I spoke with said they see this frequently and it doesn't trigger any compliance issues as long as the property sale is fully reported with the correct amounts elsewhere on Form 4797.
I'm super frustrated and confused right now. For the second straight year, I'm getting zilch for a tax refund and can't figure out what I'm doing wrong! I live in Portland, OR and make around $68,000 per year at my marketing job. I've been claiming 0 on my W-4 thinking I'd get something back, plus I have employer health benefits that come out pre-tax. I contribute about $4,800 to my 401k annually and put roughly $400 into my FSA for medical expenses. The weird thing is I don't owe anything to the IRS either - I'm just breaking exactly even somehow? All my friends with similar situations seem to get decent refunds. Should I be adjusting my withholding or claiming differently on my W-4? Is there something obvious I'm missing here? This is driving me crazy!
One thing nobody's mentioned - are you claiming any tax credits? With your income level, you might qualify for the Saver's Credit (Form 8880) for your 401k contributions. Depending on your exact AGI, you could get up to 10% or 20% credit on your retirement contributions. Also, do you have any student loan interest, education expenses, or other potential deductions outside of what you mentioned? Those could potentially generate a refund if you're not accounting for them.
I had no idea about the Saver's Credit! I'll definitely look into that. I do have some student loan interest (about $1,200 last year) but I've been including that on my returns. I don't think I have any other major deductions I'm missing, but maybe I should double check. What's the income limit for the Saver's Credit? I'm worried I might make too much to qualify.
The Saver's Credit has phaseout limits that change annually. For the 2024 tax year (filing in 2025), the credit begins to phase out at $46,000 for single filers and is completely phased out at $71,000. With your income around $68,000, you might qualify for a partial credit, which could result in a small refund. Your student loan interest deduction is good to include - that's up to $2,500 in deductible interest annually. If you work from home at all, you might also want to check if you qualify for any home office deductions, especially if you're an independent contractor for any portion of your income. Every little bit helps!
Has anyone actually compared tax software to see if different programs give different refund amounts? Last year I tried my return on both TurboTax and FreeTaxUSA and got a $340 difference between them - apparently TurboTax missed a deduction that FreeTaxUSA caught. Maybe try running your numbers through a different program than what you've been using?
Luca Esposito
Something important nobody's mentioned yet - if you claimed any interest income from this loan on previous tax returns, that strengthens your case that this was a legitimate loan and not a gift. If you didn't charge interest or report any, the IRS might be more suspicious about whether this was truly a loan. Also, make sure you're claiming this in the right tax year. The deduction should be claimed in the year the debt becomes totally worthless. If your brother officially closed his business last year or declared he couldn't pay you back last year, that's when you should claim it - not this year.
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Freya Thomsen
AuthorI did charge a small interest rate (like 2%) but I never actually reported it on my taxes since he never made any payments. Should I go back and amend those previous returns to show the interest I SHOULD have received, even though I didn't get it? Would that help my case or just complicate things?
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Luca Esposito
You don't need to amend previous returns to report interest you never received. In fact, doing so might raise red flags. What matters is that you had a legitimate expectation of being repaid with interest, which your loan agreement should show. The IRS follows the concept of "constructive receipt" - you only need to report income when you actually receive it or have unrestricted access to it. Since you never received any interest payments, there was nothing to report. Just focus on documenting that this was a genuine loan with the expectation of repayment, and that the debt has now become worthless.
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Nia Thompson
I'm confused about the capital loss treatment. If OP claims this $47k as a non-business bad debt, does that mean they can only deduct $3k per year? So it would take like 16 years to fully deduct the loss?
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Mateo Rodriguez
Yes, that's right. Non-business bad debts are treated as short-term capital losses, which means they're subject to the capital loss limitation ($3,000 per year against ordinary income). However, if OP has any capital gains in the same year, the loss would first offset those gains. Any remaining loss can be carried forward indefinitely to future tax years. So if OP has no capital gains, it would take about 16 years to fully utilize the $47,000 loss. But if they have capital gains in future years, they could use more of the loss carryforward each year to offset those gains without the $3,000 limitation.
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