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Oil & Gas K1 Schedule SE Calculation Issue - Need Help with Partnership Working Interest

I'm dealing with a head scratcher regarding my oil and gas investment income and would appreciate some expert guidance. Here's my situation: I'm a partner in a general partnership with working interest in some oil and gas properties. On my K1, there's a note at the bottom stating "QUALIFIED BUSINESS INCOME HAS NOT BEEN REDUCED BY INTANGIBLE DRILLING COSTS AND OIL AND GAS DEPLETION." My new CPA (switched this year) is calculating my Schedule SE differently than my previous accountant. The partnership's preparer told my current CPA to subtract IDC and Depletion from box 14a to determine net SE earnings for Schedule SE. When I reviewed my 2020 and 2021 returns out of curiosity, I noticed my former CPA used the exact amount from box 14a on Schedule SE without any reductions, even though those K1s had the same note about QBI not being reduced. If we calculate it the way my new CPA did for 2022, my self-employment income would've been approximately $45k and $85k lower for 2020 and 2021! That's a significant difference in SE tax. I reached out to my former CPA about possibly amending those returns, but she insists they were prepared correctly and won't even look into it. My current CPA isn't being responsive about this issue either. So I'm stuck with these questions: - Which method is actually correct for calculating SE income from O&G working interests? - Can/should I amend my 2020 and 2021 returns given the potential tax savings? - How do I get my former CPA to address this when we didn't part on great terms? (I fired her for missing deadlines and making errors) Thanks in advance for any insights!

Grace Durand

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I've been a tax accountant specializing in oil and gas for 15+ years. Here's what you need to know: 1. Your new CPA is correct. IDC and depletion should be subtracted from box 14a when calculating SE income. 2. The note on your K1 about "QBI not reduced" is standard language that specifically exists to tell you these amounts need to be backed out for SE tax purposes. 3. Your former CPA was incorrect, and yes, you should definitely amend 2020 and 2021 returns. With differences of $45k and $85k, you're looking at potential SE tax savings of approximately $6,800 and $12,800 respectively. Don't be surprised that your former CPA is resistant - admitting this error would open her up to liability for the mistake. I'd suggest having your current CPA or another preparer handle the amendments.

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Max Knight

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Thank you for this clear explanation! Since my current CPA isn't being very responsive, do you think this is something I could potentially handle myself with tax software? Or is it too complex for DIY?

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Grace Durand

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I wouldn't recommend DIY for this particular situation. The amendments will need to properly document the IDC and depletion adjustments, and most consumer tax software doesn't handle these specialized oil and gas calculations well. If your current CPA continues to be unresponsive, I'd suggest finding a new preparer who has specific experience with oil and gas partnerships. Look for someone who regularly works with clients who have working interests rather than just royalty interests. This distinction is critical, as they have very different tax treatments, and it's where many CPAs get confused. The investment in a knowledgeable preparer will likely pay for itself many times over given the tax amounts at stake.

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Steven Adams

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A key point I haven't seen mentioned yet - the statute of limitations for amending returns is typically 3 years from the original filing date, but can be extended to 6 years in certain situations. Make sure you get those amendments in for 2020 ASAP before the window closes!

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Alice Fleming

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Is the 3-year clock from the original due date or the actual filing date? My 2020 return was on extension and filed in October 2021.

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Caden Turner

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PSA for all students: If your income is below $73,000, DO NOT directly go to TurboTax, H&R Block, etc. websites. Instead, access them THROUGH the IRS Free File page (https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-for-free) if you want to use those services for free! Companies deliberately hide their free versions and use confusing language to get you to pay. There was actually a big scandal about this a few years ago. They advertise "free free free" but then charge you for state filing or when you have a 1098-T. I've used IRS Free File for 3 years as a student with W-2s, 1098-T education credits, and even some side gig income, and haven't paid a cent. Literally saved hundreds of dollars.

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Does the Free File program have a mobile app or is it desktop only? My laptop died last month and I'm only using my phone right now.

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Caden Turner

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Most of the Free File options are designed primarily for desktop, but several have mobile-responsive websites that work on phones. TaxSlayer and TaxAct specifically have decent mobile experiences through their Free File programs. If you're limited to just your phone, Cash App Taxes (mentioned in another comment) might be your best bet - it was literally designed as a mobile-first experience and works great on phones. It's free regardless of whether you access it through Free File or directly, and handles education credits without charging.

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Harmony Love

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has anyone here used Credit Karma Tax? i heard they got bought by Cash App but still offer free filing. my roommate used it last year but he doesn't have education stuff like i do

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Rudy Cenizo

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Yes, Credit Karma Tax is now Cash App Taxes. I used it this year with a W-2, 1098-T, and even some 1099-INT from my savings account. Completely free for both federal and state, and it handled my American Opportunity Credit without any issues. The interface is pretty streamlined and worked well on both my laptop and phone.

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Liam Sullivan

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Could there be a situation where your tax advisor might be right? I wonder if they're thinking about income limits. If you're near or over the income limit for Roth contributions, you might need to do a backdoor Roth (contribute to traditional then convert), which WOULD require Form 8606. Might be worth asking your advisor specifically why they think you need that form. If they're suggesting a backdoor Roth strategy, that's a whole different situation.

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AstroAce

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That's actually a really good point that I hadn't considered! My income is definitely below the Roth limits (about $95k for 2023), but maybe my advisor was assuming I'd be doing a backdoor Roth? I'll ask them specifically if that's what they were suggesting. If they were just mistaken about regular Roth contributions needing Form 8606, it might be time to find a new advisor...

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Liam Sullivan

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Definitely worth a clarifying conversation with them. If your income is $95k, you're well within the limits for direct Roth contributions ($138,000 for single filers in 2023), so backdoor wouldn't be necessary. Some tax advisors who deal primarily with higher-income clients get so used to recommending backdoor Roth strategies that they sometimes default to that advice without checking if a direct contribution is possible. Or they might just be confusing the reporting requirements between traditional and Roth IRAs.

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Amara Okafor

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Just a reminder to make sure your contribution is earmarked specifically for 2023! I made a contribution in March last year and didn't clearly specify which tax year, and my investment company defaulted it to 2023 when I had intended it for 2022. Was a huge hassle to get fixed. Usually when you contribute online there's a dropdown to select the tax year, or if doing it by mail/check there's a place to note it.

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This happened to me too! Fidelity assumed my April contribution was for the current year not the previous year. Took forever to get fixed and they had to generate corrected tax forms.

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Another option nobody mentioned - pay what you CAN by the deadline. Even a partial payment will reduce the amount subject to penalties and interest. If you have say half the money now, pay that before the deadline and then the rest on the 21st.

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KaiEsmeralda

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That's actually a really smart idea I hadn't considered. I could probably scrape together about $3,000 by the deadline. Would I just make a partial payment through the IRS website and then pay the remainder later? Or do I need to indicate somewhere that it's a partial payment?

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Just make the payment through the IRS Direct Pay or another official payment method for whatever amount you can afford. There's no need to mark it as "partial" - the IRS system automatically matches your payments to your tax liability and will show any remaining balance due. Then when you get the rest of the money, make another payment for the remaining balance. The penalties and interest will only apply to the unpaid portion. Both payments would be made exactly the same way - there's no special process for making multiple payments.

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Lucas Schmidt

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Has anyone calculated exactly what the penalty would be for paying about 4 days late on $5,650? I'm curious about the actual dollar amount we're talking about here.

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Debra Bai

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For a 4-day late payment of $5,650, the math works out to: Failure-to-pay penalty: 0.5% per month, prorated for 4 days = about 0.067% Ɨ $5,650 = $3.78 Interest: Currently about 7% annually, prorated for 4 days = about 0.077% Ɨ $5,650 = $4.35 So total damage would be roughly $8.13 if paid exactly 4 days late.

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Amara Adeyemi

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A friend of mine was able to claim a scam loss as a business expense because she got scammed while trying to buy equipment for her small business. So maybe it depends on if this was a personal investment or somehow tied to a business you run? The rules seem different for business losses vs personal.

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This is exactly right. Business losses from scams are still deductible as business expenses if they occurred in the normal course of business. It's only personal theft losses that got eliminated (except for federally declared disasters). OP, was this investment somehow connected to any business activities or was it purely personal? That makes a huge difference in deductibility.

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Don't forget to report this to the FBI's Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) if you haven't already! https://www.ic3.gov While not tax related, it helps build cases against these scammers. I reported a similar crypto scam last year, and while I didn't get my money back, I got notification that my report helped in a larger investigation. Felt good knowing I might help stop them from scamming others.

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Dylan Wright

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You can also try contacting CFPB (Consumer Financial Protection Bureau) if a bank or financial institution was involved in any way with the transactions. They sometimes can put pressure on financial institutions that may have facilitated the scam.

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Yuki Nakamura

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Thanks for the suggestion! I did file a report with IC3 already but haven't heard anything back yet. It's been about 3 months since I filed the report. I'll check out the CFPB option too. My bank wasn't much help since I authorized the transfers myself (stupid, I know), but maybe CFPB could still do something.

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