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Ask the community...

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Is my Bonsai hobby considered a business for tax purposes?

I've been growing bonsai trees for a few years now and I'm confused about whether the IRS would consider this a hobby or a business. I currently have about 25 trees that I care for daily - sometimes watering them twice a day depending on the weather. It's definitely a labor of love! When I trim my trees, I often propagate the cuttings and get them to root into new plants. I've gotten pretty good at this, so I end up with quite a few extra plants. Instead of just giving them all away, I've started selling some on my Facebook page for modest prices. I post photos of my collection and occasionally offer cuttings or trees I've grown tired of or need to remove to free up space in my apartment. The plants definitely have value, and I'm making some money from these sales. I've been saving this money specifically to buy more expensive bonsai specimens for my collection. What's confusing me is determining if this qualifies as a business for tax purposes. Some aspects seem business-like, but honestly, I'm just pursuing my passion and selling extras to fund my hobby. I don't plan on deducting expenses, and I'm really just keeping track of the money so I don't feel guilty about purchasing more expensive trees later. Since there's minimal financial investment besides my time, almost all the money from sales could be considered profit. Does this mean the IRS would consider this a business? How do I know where the line is between hobby and business for tax purposes?

Zara Ahmed

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Something important that hasn't been mentioned yet - the IRS actually has a specific "9 factors test" they use to determine if an activity is a hobby or business: 1. Whether you carry on the activity in a businesslike manner 2. Your expertise (or your advisors') 3. The time and effort you spend on it 4. Whether assets used may appreciate in value 5. Your success in similar activities 6. Your history of income or losses 7. The amount of occasional profits earned 8. Your financial status (if you have other income sources) 9. Elements of personal pleasure/recreation From what you described, you have more hobby factors (personal pleasure, not your main income, not conducted in a super businesslike way), but documenting expenses and showing intent to make profit over time might push you toward business territory if you want that classification.

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Ravi Sharma

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This is super helpful, thank you! Looking at these factors, I'm definitely more on the hobby side. My financial records are pretty basic, I primarily do it for enjoyment, and the income is small compared to my day job. One more question - if I do decide to formally track this as a hobby on my taxes, should I be keeping receipts for all my bonsai-related purchases even though I can't deduct them? Just in case the IRS ever has questions?

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Zara Ahmed

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Good question! Yes, I would recommend keeping basic records of both your sales and expenses, even though you can't deduct the expenses for a hobby. This serves two important purposes: First, if the IRS ever questions whether this is truly a hobby, your records can help demonstrate the financial reality of your activity. Second, if you eventually transition to business status, having historical records will be valuable. Also, while you can't deduct hobby expenses against hobby income anymore (thanks to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act), keeping track of expenses helps you understand the true economics of your activity. Just keep it simple - a basic spreadsheet and a folder for receipts should be sufficient. No need for elaborate bookkeeping if it's truly just a hobby.

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Luca Conti

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Anyone know if selling plants online through Etsy changes the hobby/business determination? I've been propagating houseplants (not bonsai but similar concept) and selling about $1500/year through Etsy. They sent me a 1099-K last year and I didn't know what to do with it.

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Nia Johnson

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Getting a 1099-K means Etsy is reporting that income to the IRS, so you definitely need to report it on your tax return. Starting in 2022, platforms like Etsy are required to issue 1099-Ks for $600+ in sales (used to be $20k). This doesn't automatically make your activity a business, but it does mean the IRS knows about the income. You'd still apply the same hobby vs business tests others mentioned. If it's a hobby, report on Schedule 1 (Other Income). If business, Schedule C.

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Have you checked if there's a difference between your actual Schedule D and what the software summary is showing? Sometimes the software interface displays simplifications but the actual Schedule D will show the correct carryover amount. Look at the Schedule D and the "Capital Loss Carryover Worksheet" in the actual forms. Also, some tax software require you to manually enter previous year carryovers rather than importing them correctly. Double check if that might be the issue.

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Thanks for the tip! I just looked at the actual Schedule D form in the PDF and you're right - there's a discrepancy. The main software screen shows $0 carryover, but Schedule D Line 16 is showing the $4,000 remaining loss amount. So it looks like the calculation is correct in the actual forms but just displaying wrong in the summary screen? Do you think I should contact the software company about this display issue or just ignore it since the actual form seems correct?

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If the actual Schedule D shows the correct $4,000 carryover amount, then your tax return is being filed correctly and you should be fine. This is definitely just a display issue in the software interface. It's still worth reporting to the software company since others might be confused by the same issue. Take screenshots of both the incorrect summary page and the correct Schedule D to include with your report. But as far as your taxes are concerned, you're good to go - the IRS receives the actual forms, not the software's summary screens.

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Maya Lewis

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Double check your amounts across tax years. I went through smth similar and realized I misremembered my 2022 loss. Ended up being $21k not $24k like I thought. Check all the actual Schedule D forms across years. The math should always balance out if your going from 1 yr to next!

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Isaac Wright

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This is good advice. Numbers get fuzzy when we rely on memory. I've messed up carryovers before because I was working from memory instead of having my previous return open while doing my current taxes.

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Luca Ricci

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Something to consider - if they were primarily on Social Security and VA benefits, they might not have had a filing requirement at all depending on their other income. Those benefits are often not taxable or only partially taxable. But the estate itself (Form 1041) is a separate matter from their personal returns (Form 1040). Even if they didn't need to file personal returns, the estate might have filing requirements depending on income generated after death (like interest on accounts, sale of property, etc).

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Chloe Martin

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That's really helpful context. The mobile home was repossessed rather than sold, and I don't think there were any investment accounts generating income. Does that mean the estate might not have needed to file either? I'm trying to figure out if we're in deep trouble or if this might be a relatively minor issue.

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Luca Ricci

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Based on what you've described, it sounds like the estate tax situation might be fairly straightforward. If the manufactured home was repossessed rather than sold by the estate, there wouldn't be income from that transaction. Without investment accounts generating income, the estate may have had minimal or no taxable income. That said, estates still have filing requirements even with zero tax liability in many cases. The 1041-ES forms you received suggest the IRS believes there is some obligation, but it could be much simpler than you fear. Getting the transcript information from the IRS will help clarify exactly what they're expecting.

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Make sure you look into any potential penalties for failure to file. Even if your in-laws didn't owe taxes due to their income types, there can still be penalties for not filing required returns. However, the IRS can sometimes waive these penalties for reasonable cause. Also, check if your state has separate estate tax requirements - some states have their own processes apart from federal.

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This is super important. My family got hit with massive penalties that were almost more than the taxes themselves. Request first-time penalty abatement if this is your first tax issue - the IRS will often grant it if you have a clean compliance history.

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Has anyone tried calling the IRS Practitioner Priority Service? I know it's supposed to be for tax professionals, but I've heard some regular people have success getting through that way. The number is 1-866-860-4259.

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DON'T do this unless you're an actual tax professional with a CAF number. They will ask for your credentials and if you can't provide them, they'll just transfer you back to the regular line and you've wasted your time. They've gotten stricter about this in the last year.

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Thanks for the heads up! I didn't realize they were checking credentials now. Guess I'll stick with the regular line and just use the tips from this thread. Definitely don't want to make things worse by trying to game the system.

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Honestly after trying ALL of these methods with mixed results, I've found that sending a secure message through my IRS online account works better than calling for many issues. Not as immediate as a phone call, but I usually get a response within 3-5 business days, and it avoids the whole phone nightmare completely. You have to create an account at IRS.gov if you don't already have one (which requires some verification steps), but once you're in, you can send messages about specific tax issues and even upload documents if needed. Has saved me so much time and frustration!

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CPA issues and negative review: Was my response reasonable after crypto tax troubles?

Alright guys, I need to check if I'm being the unreasonable one here. For my 2023 taxes, I had a particularly complicated situation with a ton of cryptocurrency transactions that needed proper categorization. I spent weeks working with a crypto tax specialist to get everything organized correctly. The end result was a detailed 8949 with all the transactions properly categorized and totals ready for filing. Since I had all the crypto stuff handled, I figured I'd hire a local CPA to pull everything together for the final return. During our initial conversation, I explained that most of my tax situation was pretty standard, but that I needed to finalize my crypto documentation before submitting everything. I sent over my W-2s, mortgage interest, and other standard docs while letting him know I'd provide the crypto information separately once it was complete. I also mentioned I wanted to meet in person to discuss some specific questions about my tax situation. When I showed up at his office last week, he immediately dropped a thick stack of papers on the desk and said, "I've got your return all ready to go. That'll be $750." I was totally confused because I hadn't even sent him my crypto information yet, which was easily the most substantial part of my return this year. When I pointed this out, he acted annoyed and claimed I never mentioned crypto. I literally had emails proving I told him about it multiple times. When I questioned how he completed my return without crucial information, he got defensive and started talking about how he's been doing this for 25 years and knows what he's doing. I paid him $250 for his time but declined to file the obviously incomplete return. Left him a 2-star review explaining exactly what happened. Now his office manager is calling saying I'm being unfair and demanding I take down the review. Am I being unreasonable here?

Emma Olsen

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Honestly, just fire him and move on. I've been through three different CPAs in the last five years. The good ones are worth their weight in gold, but there are plenty of duds out there. Your review sounds totally fair - you're describing exactly what happened. Pro tip: for next tax season, ask potential CPAs specifically about their experience with crypto taxes. Many traditional CPAs are totally out of their depth with crypto but won't admit it until they've already taken your money. I found my current guy through a crypto subreddit recommendation, and he's been amazing with all my DeFi stuff.

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Kylo Ren

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Thanks for the validation. I've already started asking around for recommendations for next year. Did you find any specific questions that helped you separate the knowledgeable CPAs from those just claiming to understand crypto?

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Emma Olsen

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I ask them to explain how they handle specific crypto situations that I know are tricky - like liquidity pool rewards, token airdrops, or NFT transactions. The ones who give vague answers or just say "we can handle any crypto situation" without details are the ones to avoid. The good ones will be honest about what they know and don't know. My current CPA straight up told me he specialized in DeFi and mining operations but wasn't as familiar with NFTs. That honesty was refreshing, and he ended up partnering with an NFT tax specialist for that portion of my return. Transparency about their limitations is a huge green flag.

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Dude you were too nice. I would've refused to pay anything and given a 1-star review. He literally didn't do what you hired him for and then tried to charge you full price! I've noticed a lot of accountants think they can get away with garbage service because people are scared of doing taxes themselves.

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Sophie Duck

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Eh, I disagree. The CPA did complete part of the work, so paying nothing would be unfair. The $250 partial payment makes sense. And honestly, most CPAs are overwhelmed during tax season - it sounds more like miscommunication than intentional deception.

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This is why I just do my own taxes now. I spent $600 on a CPA two years ago only to find a mistake that could have cost me $1200. H&R Block software is like $70 and has handled everything I've thrown at it including rental property and some basic stock trades.

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