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Just to add another data point - I actually did exactly what you're describing about 2 years ago. I had approximately $215k in my Roth 401k (about $120k contributions) and rolled it to my existing Roth IRA which had about $35k (with $25k being contributions). After the rollover, my contribution basis was properly tracked as $145k total. I needed money for a medical emergency about 3 months later and was able to withdraw $52k without any tax consequences or penalties. The key is making sure your 401k plan administrator correctly reports the contribution portion of your rollover. My plan provided a statement breaking down the contributions vs. earnings portions, which I kept for my records. When I filed my taxes the following year, everything worked as expected - no issues.
That's really helpful to hear a real-world example! Did you have to do anything special on your tax return to document the rollover and subsequent withdrawal? And did your 401k plan administrator automatically provide that contribution/earnings breakdown, or did you have to specifically request it?
You'll receive a 1099-R from your 401k provider showing the total distribution, and you'll need to report the rollover on your tax return. For the withdrawal, you'll get a 1099-R from your IRA custodian the following year. I didn't need to file any special forms since my withdrawal was less than my total contributions, but I did keep detailed records of my basis. My plan administrator provided the contribution/earnings breakdown automatically as part of the distribution paperwork. If yours doesn't, definitely request it - you need this documentation to establish your basis. Some administrators have this readily available, while others might require you to specifically ask for a "distribution statement showing contribution and earnings portions.
One thing nobody has mentioned yet - while the ordering rules do work as everyone's described (contributions come out first), be careful about one detail: the timing! If you roll over your Roth 401k to a NEW Roth IRA (rather than one you've had for 5+ years), you might still face the 5-year rule on qualified distributions of EARNINGS. Contributions can still come out anytime, but if you're trying to access earnings within 5 years of establishing your FIRST Roth IRA, those earnings would be subject to tax/penalty even if you're over 59.5. The 5-year clock for earnings starts when you open your first Roth IRA, not when you do the rollover. This trips up a lot of people who wait until retirement to open their first Roth account.
Wait I'm confused. So if I open my first ever Roth IRA today at age 55, then immediately roll over my Roth 401k that I've had for 20 years, I still have to wait until age 60 to access the earnings tax-free even though I'll be past 59.5?
That's exactly right. The 5-year rule for Roth IRA earnings requires that your first Roth IRA was established at least 5 tax years ago AND you're 59½ or meet another exception (disability, first-time home purchase, etc.). So in your example, if you open your first Roth IRA at 55 and roll over your 20-year Roth 401k, you could access all the contribution portions immediately without tax or penalty. However, for the earnings to come out tax-free, you'd need to wait until both: 1) you're 59½ (which you already are), and 2) it's been 5 tax years since you established your first Roth IRA - so that would be at age 60.
Current landlord here (5 properties). One strategy that worked well for me was creating an LLC for my rental properties and electing S-Corp taxation. This allowed me to pay myself a reasonable salary with proper withholding while also taking distributions. It's definitely more complicated than just increasing your W-4 withholding, but it can potentially save you on self-employment taxes depending on your situation. Just something to consider if your rental business grows.
Doesn't creating an LLC and doing the S-Corp election cost a lot in administrative fees? I've heard you need to run payroll and everything. Is it really worth it for just one property?
You're right that it doesn't make financial sense for just one property. The administrative costs (state filing fees, payroll service, possibly a CPA) would likely outweigh the tax benefits until you have multiple properties generating significant income. For a single property, increasing your W-4 withholding or making quarterly estimated payments is definitely more cost-effective. I'd say the S-Corp approach usually starts making sense around 3-5 properties or when rental income exceeds about $40,000 annually. Until then, the simpler approaches others have mentioned are your best bet.
dont forget about depreciation! it will offset some of ur rental income. my first year as landlord i was worried about owing but the depreciation deduction was huge and actually cancelled out most of my rental profits for tax purposes. talk to a tax person about this.
This is really important. Depreciation is actually required by the IRS even if you don't claim it. And they'll hit you with depreciation recapture taxes when you sell regardless. So definitely claim it!
Just want to point out something important here - the "square footage" method is crucial if you go the home office route. Since you're using a substantial portion of your home (half of 9,000 sq ft!), you'd calculate the percentage of your home used for business and apply that to your home expenses. For example, if exactly half is used exclusively for the cat boarding business, you'd deduct 50% of your mortgage interest, property taxes, utilities, insurance, repairs, etc. For direct business expenses (like the cat condos or special flooring), those are 100% deductible regardless. Be super careful about claiming exclusive business use though. The space must be used ONLY for business. If you occasionally use the "cat area" for personal purposes, you could lose the entire deduction in an audit.
That exclusive use requirement is so tricky! I have a home daycare and the IRS has different rules specifically for daycare providers. We can claim spaces that have mixed use (like kitchen, bathroom) based on time used for business. I wonder if there's any similar exception for pet boarding? Might be worth looking into.
Here's something nobody's mentioned yet: if your LLC has been deducting rent payments to you, but those should have been treated as income subject to self-employment tax, you might have a tax liability for the difference plus penalties. Before you make any changes, you should calculate what the potential back taxes might be. Depending on how many years this has been going on and the amounts involved, it could be significant. Sometimes it's worth getting a third opinion from a tax professional who specializes in small business issues before making any drastic changes or amendments.
That's a really good point. Do you think I need to file amended returns for previous years? Or could I just start doing it correctly going forward? I'm a bit worried about opening a can of worms if I start amending returns.
Generally, if you discover an error on past returns, you should file amended returns. However, there's a 3-year statute of limitations on most tax issues, so you'd typically only need to amend returns from the past 3 years. That said, this isn't necessarily a black-and-white error. There are legitimate situations where rental arrangements between yourself and your business can be appropriate, especially if you have the right business structure. Before amending anything, I'd recommend getting that third opinion from someone who can look at your specific situation. If you do need to amend, a tax professional can help you present the changes in the most favorable light, possibly reducing or eliminating penalties. Sometimes when you self-disclose and correct issues, the IRS is more lenient than if they discover the issue during an audit.
Another option nobody's mentioned is to consult a CPA or tax professional. Yes, it costs money, but they deal with amendments all the time and have access to professional tax software with all the current forms. I had a similar issue with an amendment last year and my CPA handled it all - found the right forms, calculated everything correctly, and even represented me when the IRS had questions. For something that might involve substantial money (like that $3,800 business expense OP mentioned), the peace of mind might be worth the professional fee.
Thanks for suggesting this! Do you have any idea how much a CPA typically charges for handling a simple amendment? I'm trying to weigh if the potential refund would be worth the professional fees.
For a relatively straightforward amendment like yours, most CPAs would charge somewhere between $200-500 depending on your location and the complexity of your overall tax situation. If your $3,800 business expense would significantly reduce your self-employment taxes (which can be 15.3% of your net earnings), you could potentially recover $500-700 or more, making the CPA fees worthwhile. Plus, they'll handle all the paperwork and respond to any IRS inquiries, which adds value beyond just the monetary return.
Just a quick note - if your 2020 tax return was e-filed originally, you might be able to e-file the amendment now too! The IRS started allowing e-filing of Form 1040-X in 2020, but not all tax software supports it yet. I used TurboTax to amend my 2020 return last year and was able to e-file it. Made the whole process much faster - got my refund in about 8 weeks instead of the 16+ weeks it typically takes for paper amendments.
Does anyone know if the free tax filing services like FreeTaxUSA or Credit Karma support e-filing amendments? Or is this only available in the paid versions of software?
Last I checked, FreeTaxUSA does support preparing and e-filing 1040-X amendments, even in their free version for federal returns (though state amendments might have a fee). Credit Karma Tax (now Cash App Taxes) has been a bit behind on amendment e-filing support, but they might have added it by now. One important thing to note is that you can only e-file an amendment if your original return was also e-filed. If you filed by paper originally, you'll need to submit your amendment by paper too.
McKenzie Shade
I'm a tax preparer (not CPA) and November is absolutely not too early to book for tax season. We start booking returning clients in October and new clients in November. By January, we're usually booked through mid-March. One suggestion - ask if they offer a pre-tax season planning meeting in December. Many CPAs offer this service where they can review the situation and give advice before year-end. This is especially useful with real estate since there might be things your in-laws can do before December 31st to optimize their tax situation.
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Harmony Love
ā¢What's the difference between a tax preparer and a CPA? Would a regular tax preparer be able to handle real estate investments from another country or is that something only a CPA should handle?
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McKenzie Shade
ā¢A CPA has more extensive education, passed the CPA exam, and maintains specific continuing education requirements. Tax preparers like me have various levels of certification (I'm an Enrolled Agent which means I'm licensed by the IRS). For international real estate investments, I would strongly recommend a CPA with specific experience in that area. While some experienced EAs could handle it, CPAs typically have more training with complex international tax issues. Foreign real estate can involve foreign tax credits, FBAR filings, and other complex reporting requirements that go beyond basic tax preparation. This is definitely a situation where expertise matters more than price.
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Rudy Cenizo
I would recommend calling now but expecting to book for February. January is when most people are still waiting for documents to arrive. Most W-2s and 1099s don't even come until late January or early February, so unless your in-laws have everything ready super early, a February appointment makes more sense.
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Natalie Khan
ā¢This depends entirely on the complexity. For simple returns, sure. But for real estate investments, especially with foreign ownership, earlier meetings can be crucial for gathering all the required documentation. Sometimes these returns require information that takes weeks to track down.
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