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Ask the community...

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Darcy Moore

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Coming back to the original question about whether wealthy people could exploit a tip tax exemption - I think we're missing something important here. The proposal is likely aimed at service workers who receive tips as part of their regular compensation, not professionals who bill for services. If actually implemented, I'd expect the legislation to include specific definitions of qualified tipped employees - probably building on existing IRS definitions that focus on industries where tipping is customary (restaurants, hotels, transportation, etc).

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Dana Doyle

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But that's exactly the concern, right? Without extremely tight definitions, people find ways to game the system. I mean, tipping has expanded to so many industries now - you get tip prompts everywhere from coffee shops to retail stores. Where would they draw the line?

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Darcy Moore

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That's a fair point. The expansion of tipping culture does complicate things. I suspect any actual legislation would need to establish criteria like: the worker receives a reduced minimum wage under tip credit rules, the industry has a historical practice of tipping, and the tips are contemporaneous with service rather than contractually required. The IRS and Treasury would likely issue regulations clarifying these boundaries. Similar to how they've handled other tax provisions, they'd establish factors to determine legitimate tips versus disguised regular compensation. The challenge would be enforcement - they're already understaffed for existing tax issues.

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Liam Duke

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Something nobody's mentioned yet - wouldn't this create a massive bookkeeping nightmare for businesses? I run a small cafe, and we'd have to completely change our payroll systems to track which income is taxable and which isn't. Plus there would be huge incentives for employees to classify everything possible as tips.

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Manny Lark

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I work in payroll software development, and yes, it would be a significant change. We'd need to create new income classifications, update tax withholding algorithms, and modify all the reporting. The IRS would also need new forms. It's not impossible, but would require substantial systems updates.

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One thing to consider that nobody's mentioned yet - if you're a single-member LLC taxed as a disregarded entity, these education expenses would go on your Schedule C. But if you've elected to be taxed as an S-Corp, the rules get more complicated with reasonable compensation issues. Might be worth consulting a tax pro about the specific structure.

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Can you explain what you mean about S-Corps and "reasonable compensation issues"? My construction business is an LLC but I elected S-Corp status for tax purposes and now I'm confused about how this would work.

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With an S-Corp, you need to pay yourself a reasonable salary before taking distributions. If the LLC pays for your education, it could be considered either a business expense or potentially a fringe benefit to you as an employee-owner. If it's clearly related to your current business functions and helps you perform your job better, it can be treated as a normal business expense. However, if the education would qualify you for a new trade or significantly different position, the IRS might view it as a taxable fringe benefit to you personally, which complicates things from a tax perspective.

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Dylan Hughes

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Watch out for something called the "no new trade or business" rule. If your degree would qualify you for a new profession, the IRS might deny the deduction even if it also helps your current business. Accounting degree for construction could be ok since ur already doing bookkeeping etc, but if you got like a law degree that would be different.

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NightOwl42

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Is this still true? I thought they changed some of these rules with the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act in 2017? My accountant told me the rules got more flexible.

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Jayden Hill

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Another option that worked for me was to use the IRS Withholding Calculator online. I'm also Head of Household with multiple W-2s throughout the year. The calculator asks detailed questions about all your jobs and gives you exact instructions for filling out your W-4s. The most important thing is that you need to redo this calculation whenever you change jobs. I set a calendar reminder to check my withholding quarterly, and it's helped me avoid surprises at tax time.

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Does this calculator work well for people with both W-2 and 1099 income? I do some contract work where taxes aren't withheld at all.

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Jayden Hill

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Yes, the IRS Withholding Calculator handles both W-2 and 1099 income. For your 1099 contract work, it will help determine if you need to make estimated quarterly tax payments or if you can increase withholding from your W-2 jobs to cover the taxes on your contract income. It asks for detailed information about all income sources, which makes its recommendations much more accurate for complex situations like yours with mixed income types. Just be sure to update your information whenever your income situation changes throughout the year.

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Lucy Lam

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Don't feel bad, I've been a tax preparer for 10 years and still see this issue constantly! The 2020 revised W-4 form eliminated the allowances system, which actually makes this easier to fix now. On your new W-4s, check the box in Step 2(c) for multiple jobs. Or for more accuracy, use the worksheet in the instructions or the online IRS Withholding Estimator. With Head of Household status and 2 kids, also complete Step 3 for the Child Tax Credit ($4,000 total for two kids). Remember that how you fill out your W-4 doesn't affect how you file your taxes - it only affects withholding. You'll still file as Head of Household with two dependents regardless of what you put on your W-4.

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Aidan Hudson

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This is so helpful! So even if I change jobs mid-year, I should still check the multiple jobs box on the new employer's W-4, right? Does this mean I'll have less takehome pay each paycheck?

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Lucy Lam

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Yes, even if you change jobs mid-year, you should still check the multiple jobs box on your new employer's W-4 if you've had or expect to have other jobs during the same calendar year. And you're right - checking that box will result in more tax being withheld from each paycheck, which means your take-home pay will be lower. But this is actually a good thing because it means you're less likely to owe money when you file your taxes. Think of it as paying the correct amount gradually throughout the year instead of getting hit with a big bill at tax time.

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2 Something important nobody mentioned yet - if you're living in the house on the property, you need to be careful about how you're allocating expenses. The portion related to your personal use of the home generally isn't deductible as a business expense. You might need to separate the business portion (land, cattle, outbuildings) from the personal residence portion. Also, if you're paying rent to the LLC, that could create income for the partnership, which would offset some losses. If you're not paying rent, there might be other tax implications to consider.

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20 Good point about the house allocation. How would you recommend splitting this up on tax forms? Should the house be completely separate from the business assets?

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2 I'd recommend separating the house value from the business assets when determining what portion of expenses (like mortgage interest and property taxes) are deductible business expenses. One approach is to determine the house's value as a percentage of the total property value, then allocate that percentage as personal use. The house doesn't need to be completely separate - the LLC can still own the entire property. You just need to properly allocate expenses between business and personal use. If you're not paying market-rate rent to the LLC for your personal use, there could be imputed income or other tax consequences to consider, so that's something to discuss with a tax professional familiar with your specific situation.

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4 Has anyone dealt with cattle specifically? I'm curious if this qualifies as farming activity because there are special tax rules for farmers. Might affect how losses can be used.

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19 Yes, cattle operations typically qualify as farming activities under IRS rules. This means you might be eligible for things like farm income averaging, which can help reduce your tax burden in profitable years. Even in loss years, farm activities have some specific rules that can be advantageous.

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Yara Sayegh

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Something similar happened to me a few years back. One thing I learned is that keeping detailed records of EVERY interaction with the tax department is crucial. Write down names, ID numbers, times of calls, and summaries of what was said. If you end up getting your money back, some states have "taxpayer bill of rights" provisions that might entitle you to interest. But don't expect them to volunteer this information - you usually have to specifically request it and cite the relevant statute.

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Dylan Cooper

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Thanks for the advice! Do you happen to know if there's a way to look up my state's laws about refund interest? I'm in Michigan if that helps.

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Yara Sayegh

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For Michigan, you can check the Michigan Department of Treasury website for their "Revenue Administrative Bulletins" or RABs. They usually publish the interest rates for underpayments and overpayments there. Last I checked, Michigan does pay interest on refunds but only after a certain processing period has passed (I think it's 45 days after you file for a refund). The statutory reference should be in Michigan Compiled Laws (MCL) somewhere in the 205 section which covers revenue and tax laws. The exact interest rate changes periodically based on market rates, so you'll want to look up the current rate applicable to your situation.

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NebulaNova

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Just be careful about not paying while you dispute this. Even if you're 100% right, the penalties and interest can add up FAST if you ultimately lose the dispute. In my case, my original tax bill of $3,200 ballooned to over $5,000 with penalties and interest during the 7 months it took to resolve.

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This is seriously good advice. I made this mistake and regretted it. If you can afford to pay now, do it while simultaneously disputing. You can always get a refund later, but you can't get rid of penalties once they attach.

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