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Tate Jensen
One thing nobody's mentioned yet - check if your 401k had any after-tax contributions. If part of your 401k was funded with already-taxed money, that portion wouldn't have withholding applied when distributed, which might explain why the numbers look off. Also, sometimes the early withdrawal penalty isn't technically "withholding" - it gets calculated separately when you file your return using Form 5329. That could explain part of the discrepancy. Look at Box 7 of your 1099-R for the distribution code. If it shows code "1" that means early distribution with no known exception. If there's a different code, that might explain what's happening.
Thanks for bringing this up. The distribution code is definitely "1" for early withdrawal. And I never made after-tax contributions to this 401k - it was all traditional pre-tax money through my employer. I understand the 10% early withdrawal penalty gets calculated on my tax return, but I'm certain the federal and state income tax withholding should show up on the 1099-R. When I requested the distribution, Fidelity's system specifically asked how much I wanted withheld for federal and state taxes, and I selected the percentages. That withholding definitely happened because the amount deposited to my bank was significantly less than the gross distribution.
Tate Jensen
ā¢You're absolutely right - if you elected to have federal and state taxes withheld during the distribution process, those amounts should definitely be reflected on the 1099-R in boxes 4 and 14 respectively. Since you're certain withholding occurred and have bank statements to prove the net amount received, I'd recommend escalating this at Fidelity. Ask specifically for their tax reporting department rather than general customer service. You might also request to speak with a supervisor if the first person isn't being helpful.
Adaline Wong
Make sure to look closely at ALL boxes on the 1099-R! Sometimes withholding is reported in different areas depending on how the plan is set up. Box 4 is federal income tax withholding and Box 14 is state tax withheld (though different states sometimes use different boxes). Also, check if you received multiple 1099-Rs. I once had a situation where the main distribution was on one form and the withholding was reported separately on a second form for some bizarre administrative reason.
Gabriel Ruiz
ā¢This happened to me too! My 401k company sent TWO different 1099-Rs for the same distribution - one showing the gross amount and a separate one showing the withholding. Made absolutely no sense but that's how they did it. Definitely check if there's another form coming.
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Ayla Kumar
I'm a landlord who got hit with this exact same issue. The key is understanding the difference between non-passive and passive income. Your father-in-law's salary/business income is non-passive, while rental income is considered passive (unless he qualifies as a real estate professional). The tax code only allows you to offset passive losses against passive income unless you meet specific exceptions. For high earners (over $150k), those exceptions get phased out completely. Here's the really frustrating part - the losses don't disappear forever. They get suspended and carried forward until either: 1) He has passive income to offset them against, or 2) He sells the property. So he's still getting dinged with higher taxes now even though these are legitimate expenses.
So what's the point of even owning rental properties if you're a high earner? Sounds like the tax benefits are completely eliminated.
Ayla Kumar
ā¢There are still significant advantages to owning rental properties as a high earner. First, you're building equity as tenants pay down your mortgage. Second, you benefit from property appreciation over time. Third, you can still deduct expenses up to the amount of rental income (preventing tax on phantom income). Most importantly, those suspended losses aren't gone forever - they're carried forward indefinitely. When you eventually sell the property, all those accumulated losses can be used to offset the gain from the sale. Many investors also deliberately generate passive income from other sources (like REITs or certain business activities) specifically to absorb these carried-forward losses. The key is long-term tax planning rather than focusing on year-to-year deductions.
Has your father-in-law done any grouping elections for his properties? My CPA had me file a statement with my return to group all my rental activities as a single activity for passive loss purposes. This doesn't get around the income limitations, but it can help if some properties make money while others lose money.
Kai Santiago
ā¢I second this recommendation. Grouping the properties helped me a ton because my commercial property had positive income while my residential rentals were showing losses after depreciation. Without grouping, I couldn't use the losses from one against the gains from another.
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Justin Evans
Just got thru this exact same situation!! Missed filing 2023 due to a family health crisis. My advice is DO NOT IGNORE THE IRS NOTICES when they start coming. I made that mistake and ended up with a substitute return where the IRS calculated my taxes without any of my deductions or credits, and it was WAY higher than what I actually owed. File ASAP even if you can't pay right now. The failure-to-file penalty is much bigger than the failure-to-pay penalty, so at least stop that one from growing!!!
Emily Parker
ā¢How long did it take before they filed a substitute return for you? I'm trying to figure out how much time I have before that happens to me.
Ezra Collins
If you're really overwhelmed, consider getting professional help from a tax attorney or an Enrolled Agent (EA) rather than just a regular tax preparer. They can represent you before the IRS if needed and might be able to negotiate penalty reductions. I spent about $800 on an EA when I had 3 years of unfiled returns, and they saved me over $3,000 in penalties through abatement requests and proper filing strategies. Sometimes spending money on professional help actually saves you more in the long run.
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I'm still confused about the difference between Subpart F income and GILTI. My foreign corporation in Thailand has mostly service income. Would this fall under GILTI or Subpart F? I keep getting mixed messages from different accountants.
Generally, service income from foreign corporations doesn't automatically trigger Subpart F unless it meets specific criteria (like services performed for a related party or services performed outside the country of incorporation). If your service income doesn't meet the Subpart F criteria, then any retained earnings would potentially be subject to GILTI.
Andre Dupont
PSA for anyone dealing with GILTI: don't forget about the high-tax exception! If your foreign income is already taxed at more than 18.9% (90% of the current 21% US corporate rate), you might be able to exclude that income from GILTI. Saved me a ton on my Singapore business where corporate rate is 17% but with some local surtaxes it pushed me over the threshold.
Diego Rojas
Don't forget the safe harbor rule for estimated taxes! As long as you pay either 100% of last year's tax (110% if your AGI was over $150,000) or 90% of this year's tax, you won't face penalties. So if you're struggling with the exact calculations, you can just use 100% of your 2022 tax divided by 4 for each quarterly payment.
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Javier Torres
ā¢That's actually really helpful to know about the safe harbor rule! So if I just take my 2022 total tax and divide by 4, I'm completely covered for this year? Even if I'm making significantly more this year than last year?
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Diego Rojas
ā¢If your income for 2022 was below $150,000 (AGI), then yes, paying 100% of your 2022 tax spread across your four quarterly payments will fully protect you from underpayment penalties regardless of how much more you earn this year. If your 2022 AGI was over $150,000, you'll need to pay 110% of your 2022 tax to qualify for the safe harbor. It's a really useful rule when your income fluctuates or increases, especially for self-employed folks who might not know their exact income until the year ends.
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Anastasia Sokolov
Is anyone else annoyed that the 1040-ES and self-employment tax worksheets aren't better integrated? Like why do I have to jump back and forth between multiple forms just to figure out what to pay? The IRS could make this so much simpler!
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StarSeeker
ā¢Totally agree! And the instructions are written in the most confusing way possible. I'm convinced they do it on purpose so we mess up and they can charge penalties. I spent 3 hours just trying to figure out my first quarterly payment.
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