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Everyone here is focused on the hobby vs business question, but there's another angle to consider. If you're mainly selling model horses that you previously purchased for your collection (rather than making/modifying them yourself), you might be able to treat these as capital assets. When you sell a capital asset, you report the sale price minus what you paid for it (your basis). So if you bought a model horse for $100 and sold it for $150, you'd only pay tax on the $50 profit. This might be a better approach than hobby income if you're primarily just buying and reselling without substantial modification.
This is interesting! Would you use Schedule D for this instead of reporting as hobby income? And do you need to keep receipts for everything to prove what you originally paid?
Just to add another perspective... If you customize or restore the model horses before selling them, that effort might strengthen your case as a business rather than just collecting. You're adding value through your labor and expertise, not just buying and selling. I make and sell handcrafted jewelry and was in a similar position a few years ago. Once I documented my design process, tracked my time spent making pieces, and marketed my work more consistently, my tax preparer was comfortable treating it as a business on Schedule C, even though I wasn't profitable every year.
I do customize some of them! I repaint about 30% of the models I sell, and sometimes do minor repairs on vintage pieces. I just wasn't sure if that was enough to count as a "real business" since it's still mostly just for fun. But it sounds like that could help my case?
That definitely strengthens your case! The customization and repairs show you're adding value through your skills and labor, which is a big factor in the business vs. hobby determination. Make sure you document your work process - take before and after photos of your customizations, track the time you spend on each project, and keep receipts for all supplies. Also, consider creating a separate Instagram or Facebook page showcasing your work, even if it's just casual. Having a business presence online is another factor that supports business treatment. You might also want to look into selling at model horse shows or conventions if you don't already - participating in trade shows is another indicator the IRS looks for when determining if something is a business. The key is to show that you're making decisions with the intent to eventually be profitable, even if you're not there yet.
Have you tried using the IRS Tax Withholding Estimator? It's free and pretty accurate: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/tax-withholding-estimator I used it last year after getting a new job. You need some info handy (like your most recent paystubs for both you and your spouse), but it walks you through everything step by step and gives you exact numbers to put on your W-4.
I tried that calculator but got confused halfway through. Do you know if it's better than just checking the box in Step 2? My situation is pretty straightforward - just two jobs, no kids, standard deduction.
For a straightforward situation like yours (two jobs, similar income levels, no kids), checking the box in Step 2(c) on both W-4s should work fine. The calculator is more beneficial if you have a more complex situation with kids, multiple income sources, or if you itemize deductions. The box method is designed to withhold enough for two similarly-paying jobs. If you want to be extra cautious, you could put a small additional amount ($20-50 per paycheck) in Step 4(c) for additional withholding, but it's probably not necessary with your income levels.
Just be careful with your withholding no matter what you choose! My husband and I both work and we messed up our W-4s last year. We each claimed the standard deduction on our separate forms (big mistake) and ended up owing $4,300 at tax time!!! Make sure you only claim things on ONE of your W-4s, not both. That was our costly mistake.
That's actually not how the new W-4 works. You don't "claim" the standard deduction on the form anymore. The new form automatically incorporates the standard deduction into the withholding calculations. The old form with allowances is gone.
Have you considered just learning how to properly handle the backdoor Roth yourself? Form 8606 isn't that complicated once you understand the basic concept. I've been doing my own backdoor Roth for 4 years now and honestly it takes me about 10 extra minutes in TurboTax. There are some great step-by-step guides online. The key things to remember: 1) Report the non-deductible traditional IRA contribution first 2) Then report the conversion to Roth separately 3) Make sure you have no other traditional IRA balances to avoid pro-rata complications Most tax preparers at chain places aren't trained for anything beyond basic returns.
Even with guides, I always worry about missing something important. Does TurboTax actually guide you through the backdoor Roth process well? Which version do you need to handle this correctly?
TurboTax Premier handles backdoor Roth conversions well. The software will ask if you made contributions to a traditional IRA, and you indicate they were non-deductible. Later, it asks about conversions to Roth IRAs. Just make sure you have the exact dates and amounts for both transactions. The most important thing is understanding the concept beforehand so you recognize if something doesn't look right. The software generates Form 8606 automatically, but I always review it to ensure it shows the non-deductible contribution basis correctly. Many online guides show what the completed form should look like for comparison.
i used the same tax prep chain for years and they were ok for simple returns but last year i started a side business and they totally messed up my schedule c. charged me $290 and didnt even know what business expenses i could deduct!!!! ended up redoing it myself with taxact and found over $2100 in deductions they missed. these places are just glorified data entry clerks using the same software we can buy ourselves lol
I had the exact opposite experience. Found a local CPA who specializes in small businesses and she found so many legitimate deductions I didn't know about. Sometimes it's worth paying more for actual expertise instead of the chains. Maybe try searching for someone who specifically works with your industry?
One thing nobody's mentioned yet - make sure you're documenting everything for tax purposes, especially if this is your first backdoor Roth. You'll need to file Form 8606 to report the non-deductible Traditional IRA contribution. Then when you do the conversion, you'll receive a 1099-R the following January that you'll need for your taxes. I messed this up my first year and had to file an amended return. The IRS initially tried to tax my conversion as if the entire amount was taxable income, which completely defeats the purpose of the backdoor strategy.
Thanks for mentioning the Form 8606! Would I need to file that for the tax year when I make the contribution to the Traditional IRA, or for the tax year when I do the conversion to Roth? If I contribute now but don't convert until next year, which tax year would it fall under?
You need to file Form 8606 for the tax year in which you make the non-deductible contribution to your Traditional IRA. This establishes your "basis" (after-tax money) in the IRA. If you contribute now (2023 tax year) but don't convert until next year (2024), you would still report the non-deductible contribution on Form 8606 with your 2023 tax return. Then when you do the conversion in 2024, you'd receive a 1099-R for that tax year, and you'd file another Form 8606 with your 2024 return to report the conversion. This is why keeping good records is so important - you need to track your basis over time, especially if you don't convert immediately after contributing.
Has anyone actually done the backdoor Roth with E*TRADE? Vanguard seems like a hassle from what everyone's saying. I'm thinking about opening my accounts somewhere else to avoid these customer service headaches.
Henry Delgado
One tip from someone who does this every year - if you do make a credit card payment, print and save the confirmation page! The payment processors (not the IRS directly) will give you a confirmation number. I've had situations where the payment took longer than expected to post to my IRS account, and having that confirmation number was crucial. The IRS can look it up even if it hasn't fully processed in their system yet. Also, be aware that different payment processors charge different fees. Last I checked, Pay1040.com had the lowest fee at 1.87%, while some others charge closer to 2%. Not a huge difference, but if you're making a large payment it can add up.
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Olivia Kay
ā¢Do you happen to know how long it typically takes for a credit card payment to show up in the IRS system? I need to make a payment ASAP but my electronic withdrawal is scheduled for next week.
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Henry Delgado
ā¢In my experience, credit card payments typically take 3-5 business days to show up in the IRS system. However, the payment is considered made on the day you submit it, not when it appears in the IRS records - so you're protected from late payment penalties as long as you complete the transaction by the due date. If your electronic withdrawal is scheduled for next week, I'd recommend making your credit card payment immediately. Even if it doesn't show in the system before the withdrawal date, you can contact the IRS with your confirmation number if there's any issue with double payment. They can always refund overpayments, though it might take some time to process.
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Joshua Hellan
Just a warning - I tried doing something similar last year and thought I was being clever by using my credit card for the rewards points. Make sure you do the math on the fees vs. rewards! The 1.87-1.98% fee ended up being slightly more than the value of my credit card points (I get 1.5% cash back). Only makes sense if you're trying to hit a sign-up bonus or have a card with really good rewards rate. Also, if you're cutting it close to the payment deadline, remember that credit card payments are considered timely based on when you submit them, not when the IRS processes them. Just keep your confirmation number as proof.
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Jibriel Kohn
ā¢Good point about doing the math. Some premium travel cards give effectively 2-2.5% value for points when transferred to airline partners though, which can make it worthwhile even with the fees. I always use my Chase Sapphire Reserve for tax payments specifically because the points are worth more than the fees.
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