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Don't forget the HOLDING PERIOD issue!! Everyone's talking about the exercise tax hit, but there's also huge tax implications for how long you hold the shares AFTER exercising. If you exercise now and hold for >1 year after IPO before selling, any gains ABOVE the FMV at exercise would be long-term capital gains (15-20% tax). If you exercise at IPO and immediately sell, it's ALL ordinary income (up to 37% federal + state + FICA). This was a game-changer for me - exercised my NSOs 14 months before our IPO, paid taxes on a smaller spread, then got LTCG treatment on the massive post-IPO appreciation.
This is absolutely correct. I made the mistake of exercising right at our IPO and selling within the year. Ended up paying nearly 45% (combined federal, state, local) in taxes on the full value. A colleague who exercised a year earlier paid ordinary income on the smaller pre-IPO spread, then only 15% on the huge jump from exercise to IPO price. Difference was over $100k in taxes on roughly similar option grants.
Something I learned the hard way: that 409(a) valuation of $10.50 isn't guaranteed to stay static until IPO! Our company had THREE valuation increases in the 9 months before IPO, with the final one being almost 70% of the eventual IPO price. If your company is gaining momentum toward IPO, the 409(a) valuation will likely increase in the coming months, potentially eliminating some of the tax advantage of exercising early. Maybe consider a partial exercise now to lock in the current valuation for some of your shares? Also, do you know if your company will offer a cashless exercise option at IPO? That's important for your cash flow planning.
That's a really important point about the 409(a) potentially increasing! I hadn't considered that but it makes total sense as we get closer to IPO. I like the idea of a partial exercise strategy. Regarding cashless exercise - I've heard rumors that we'll have that option at IPO, but nothing confirmed in writing. I should probably ask our finance team about this. Would that essentially mean I could exercise and immediately sell enough shares to cover the exercise cost and taxes?
Exactly - a cashless exercise at IPO would let you exercise options and immediately sell enough shares to cover both the exercise cost and the resulting tax bill, without needing to come up with cash out of pocket. Very common for IPOs. If that's an option, you might want to hold some options for that route, especially if you're cash-constrained. The tax hit will be higher, but you won't need liquidity. Many people do a mixed approach - exercise some now for tax advantages (if you have the cash), and save some for cashless exercise at IPO to diversify risk. Definitely get confirmation from your finance team though - some companies require you to exercise before IPO to participate in the offering!
10 Does anyone know if this affects backdoor Roth IRA contributions? I'm planning to do one this year since I'm over the income limit, but now I'm worried about calculating the basis correctly.
3 Yes, this is related but slightly different. With backdoor Roth, you make a non-deductible Traditional IRA contribution first, then convert it to a Roth. You'll need to file Form 8606 to report the non-deductible contribution. For basis calculation: your basis in the Traditional IRA is what you've contributed after-tax (non-deductible contributions). When you convert to Roth, you'll pay taxes on any earnings plus any pre-tax money in ANY Traditional IRA accounts you have (pro-rata rule).
10 Thanks! I didn't realize I needed to file Form 8606 for the backdoor Roth. And I completely forgot about the pro-rata rule. I have an old Traditional IRA from a 401k rollover that would definitely complicate things.
22 Just wanted to share what I learned handling a similar situation with Fidelity last year. If you call Fidelity directly, they can actually recode the distribution as a "return of excess contributions" which gives you the proper coding on your 1099-R for next year. Too late for 2023 obviously, but might help someone in the future!
1 That's really helpful to know! I wonder if I can still call Fidelity now about my 2023 distribution and have them update the coding retroactively? Has anyone tried this?
Tax pro here - I see this question a lot. The easiest way to think about it is: 1. How much state tax did you ACTUALLY pay last year? ($9,000 in your case) 2. How much did you get to deduct? ($6,500 in your case) 3. The difference ($2,500) is the amount you got NO tax benefit from 4. If your refund ($1,400) is less than this difference, it's NOT taxable You might need to use the worksheet in Publication 525 if you had other itemized deductions or if the standard deduction comes into play, but for most SALT cap situations, this simplified approach works.
Thanks for this simple breakdown! So just to confirm - in my case with $10,400 paid, $6,500 deducted, and $1,400 refunded - the refund is completely non-taxable? And would I still get a 1099-G from my state for the refund even though I don't need to report it?
Yes, your $1,400 refund would be completely non-taxable since it's less than the $3,900 difference between what you paid and what you were able to deduct. And yes, you'll still receive a 1099-G from your state because they don't know your specific federal tax situation. You'll need to report it on your federal return, but the tax software or worksheet will help you calculate that the taxable amount is $0. Don't skip reporting it just because the taxable amount is zero - that can trigger a mismatch notice from the IRS.
Does anyone know if there's a specific form I need to fill out for this? I'm doing my taxes by hand this year to save money and the instructions are confusing me.
You'll need to report the state refund on Schedule 1, Line 1. But you should complete the "State and Local Income Tax Refund Worksheet" in the 1040 instructions first to determine how much (if any) is actually taxable. If you're dealing with the SALT cap situation described in this thread, you may well calculate that $0 is taxable, but you still need to work through the worksheet.
One thing nobody's mentioned - if your donation to the school was for a raffle, you need to be extra careful. The IRS treats raffles differently than regular donations. The school should have given you documentation that specifically states the donation was for a charitable fundraiser. Just make sure the letter doesn't say it was a "raffle prize" but rather a "donation of goods to support educational fundraising" or something similar. It's a small distinction but can matter if you get audited.
Thanks for bringing this up! The letter they gave me does say "donation to support school fundraising activities" and doesn't specifically mention raffle or prize. So I'm guessing that's the right wording? Should I request any additional documentation from them before filing?
That wording sounds perfect! It acknowledges your charitable intent while not specifically tying it to the raffle mechanism. You should be good to go with that documentation. I wouldn't request additional paperwork as that might just complicate things. Just make sure you have your receipts showing your costs alongside the donation acknowledgment letter. For business expenses under $250, the documentation requirements aren't as strict, but since your total was $275, having both the letter and receipts provides the complete documentation package you'd need in case of questions.
Does anyone know if there's a minimum donation amount for taking the business deduction? I donated a small basket worth about $50 to my kid's soccer team fundraiser and wonder if it's even worth tracking.
There's no minimum for business deductions. But honestly for $50, you might spend more time documenting it than it's worth in tax savings. If your tax rate is say 20%, you're talking about saving $10. But if you're already tracking all expenses carefully anyway, might as well include it!
Liam O'Donnell
Let me add something that nobody has mentioned yet - make sure you're filling out Part IV of Schedule C where you answer questions about material participation and whether you started or acquired this business during the tax year. Many people skip this section, but it's crucial for establishing that this was a legitimate business activity, especially when you're showing losses. Also, consider adding a statement to your return that explains your business plan and why you reasonably anticipated making a profit eventually. This proactive documentation can help if questions come up later.
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Aisha Rahman
ā¢Would you recommend attaching some kind of profit projection or business plan to my return? I did have one when I started, showing how I planned to monetize once I hit certain view thresholds. Just wasn't sure if that would help or draw more attention to the loss.
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Liam O'Donnell
ā¢I wouldn't attach the full business plan to your return as that might actually draw unnecessary attention. Instead, keep it with your tax records in case of an audit. What can be helpful is a brief statement with your return explaining the nature of your business, that you operated with an intent to profit, and mentioning that you have documentation of your business plan and efforts. This shows you're aware of the requirements without overwhelming the initial filing with extra documents.
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Amara Nwosu
Has anyone mentioned the potential impact on your Social Security earnings? If you're offsetting your W2 income with Schedule C losses, it could reduce your Social Security wages and potentially lower your future benefits. Something to consider when claiming significant business losses against high W2 income.
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AstroExplorer
ā¢This is actually a common misconception. Schedule C losses don't reduce your Social Security wages from W2 employment. Your W2 income is still fully reported for Social Security purposes regardless of Schedule C losses. The losses might reduce your overall income tax, but your Social Security contributions and credits remain based on your W2 earnings.
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