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Ask the community...

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Teresa Boyd

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My small manufacturing business legitimately qualified for ERC in 2020 Q2 and Q3 due to government shutdown orders affecting our supply chain. We worked with our regular CPA firm who did a thorough analysis before filing. Received about $148,000 after 7 months of waiting. Then last year, one of those ERC specialty firms cold-called and insisted we qualified for an additional $235,000 for other quarters. They used really questionable logic about how "social distancing affected efficiency" and other stretches. I declined, and now I'm hearing about massive audits happening. So glad I didn't take the bait.

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Lourdes Fox

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Do you know if the IRS is actively auditing claims right now? My brother used one of those ERC specialty firms and got almost $400k, but I'm worried he's going to end up owing it all back plus penalties.

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Teresa Boyd

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Yes, the IRS announced earlier this year that they're significantly increasing audit activity specifically targeting ERC claims. They've actually paused processing new claims while they develop better fraud detection systems and have added staff specifically for ERC audits. If your brother used an ERC mill that made questionable eligibility determinations, he should seriously consider talking to a qualified tax professional immediately - not the firm that filed the claim. The IRS has stated they're focusing on claims that show "common indicators of non-compliance," and those $400k claims from businesses that didn't experience clear revenue drops or government shutdowns are prime targets.

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We're a small nonprofit that worked with an ERC firm last year. They charged us 25% of the credit amount (about $80k total) and promised we qualified. We got the money but I'm now terrified after hearing about all the audits. The firm we used has since shut down their website and their phone is disconnected. Anyone else in a similar situation? Should we be proactively contacting the IRS?

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Daniel White

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This is unfortunately a common situation. Many of these ERC mills collected their fees and have now disappeared, leaving clients exposed to potential audit risk. As a tax professional, I would recommend: 1) Gather all documentation about how the firm determined you qualified. Did they provide a detailed eligibility analysis? 2) Consult with a reputable tax professional (CPA or tax attorney) who can review your specific situation and documentation. 3) If the determination was clearly improper, you might want to consider a voluntary disclosure to the IRS, though the formal program has ended. The IRS is most concerned with willful fraud. If you relied on what you believed was professional advice in good faith, that's a factor the IRS will consider, though it doesn't eliminate repayment obligation if you truly didn't qualify.

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Has anyone noticed that TurboTax and other tax software sometimes handle the education credit phaseouts differently than the paper forms? I think that might explain why you're seeing different results. When I was in a similar situation last year with partial Lifetime Learning Credit eligibility, I found that line 6 on the worksheet wasn't matching what TurboTax calculated. It turned out that the software was applying the phaseout calculation at a different point in the process.

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Zainab Omar

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That makes sense! I noticed something similar with H&R Block software. Do you think it's safer to go with what the IRS forms calculate or what the tax software says?

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In my experience, I've found that tax software like TurboTax is generally correct because it's applying all the rules comprehensively. The paper worksheets sometimes require you to go back and forth between multiple forms in a specific order, which is easy to mess up when doing it manually. If there's a significant difference though, I'd recommend double-checking your entries in the software to make sure everything is correct. Tax software can only be as accurate as the information you provide. Most major tax software is regularly updated to comply with current tax laws, so it's usually reliable if you've entered everything correctly.

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One thing nobody has mentioned yet is that the Lifetime Learning Credit has different qualified expense rules compared to the American Opportunity Credit. With the LLC, you can claim expenses for courses to acquire or improve job skills, not just degree programs. Did you include all eligible expenses? For 2025, you can claim 20% of up to $10,000 in qualified expenses (maximum $2,000 credit).

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That's actually really helpful! I did include my tuition costs, but I wasn't sure about some of my required course materials. Do textbooks count for the Lifetime Learning Credit? I thought those were only eligible for the American Opportunity Credit.

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Leo Simmons

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Something nobody mentioned yet - have you considered just reducing your MAGI to stay under the limit? Max out your 401k if you haven't already ($23,000 for 2024), contribute to an HSA if eligible ($4,150 individual), or look into if your employer offers any other pre-tax benefits like dependent care FSA, commuter benefits, etc. Might be easier than dealing with withdrawals and recalculations if you're close to the threshold. I was in a similar situation last year and managed to drop my MAGI just enough by maxing these pre-tax options.

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That's a great point I hadn't considered! My company does offer a 401k that I'm not fully maxing out yet. I'm putting in about 10% of my salary but could definitely increase that. We also have an HSA option I haven't been using. Would increasing 401k contributions now still help reduce my MAGI for the whole year, even though we're partway through 2024?

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Leo Simmons

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Yes, increasing your 401k contributions now will still help reduce your 2024 MAGI, even though we're partway through the year. Your MAGI calculation only looks at your total contributions for the year, not when during the year they were made. If you significantly increase your contribution percentage for the remaining months, you can make up for the lower contribution rate from earlier in the year. The HSA is another great option if you have a qualifying high-deductible health plan. The $4,150 contribution limit (for individual coverage) for 2024 comes straight off your MAGI calculation. Between maxing out your 401k and adding an HSA, you could potentially reduce your MAGI by enough to stay within the Roth contribution limits, avoiding the need to withdraw anything.

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Lindsey Fry

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I think there's some confusion in this thread. The 5-year rule for Roth IRAs has TWO different applications: 1. For CONTRIBUTIONS: You can withdraw your contributions anytime without penalty regardless of the 5-year rule. 2. For CONVERSIONS and EARNINGS: The 5-year rule applies here. Each conversion has its own 5-year clock, and earnings require both 5 years AND being 59.5 years old to avoid penalties. In your case, since you're only withdrawing contributions, the 5-year rule doesn't matter at all. The app warning is just a generic message they show everyone. Also - if you're close to the income limit, consider contributing to a Traditional IRA and then doing a Backdoor Roth conversion rather than dealing with partial contribution calculations.

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Thanks for clarifying the 5-year rule! One question though - if OP does the backdoor Roth conversion, doesn't that start a NEW 5-year clock for those converted funds? I'm trying to understand if there's any disadvantage to the backdoor approach versus direct contributions if you might need access to the money before 59.5.

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Ethan Wilson

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You might just need to enter your prior year Roth IRA basis somewhere in the software. In H&R Block, go to the "Retirement and Investments" section, then "IRA, 401(k), or Other Retirement Plans" and look for a question about "prior Roth contributions" or "Roth IRA basis." Enter the total amount you've contributed to your Roth IRA in all previous years combined (not including 2024 contributions).

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NeonNova

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Where exactly in H&R Block do you find this? I'm looking at that section right now and I don't see anything specific about "prior Roth contributions." Is it hidden in some submenu?

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Ethan Wilson

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It's a bit buried in the interface. After you get to the "IRA, 401(k), or Other Retirement Plans" section, you need to click on the specific Roth IRA contribution entry. Then there should be an "Advanced" or "Additional Information" button or link. Click that and you'll see additional fields, including one for your previous years' contributions or basis amount. If you're using the desktop version rather than the online version, the navigation might be slightly different, but the concept is the same - look for an advanced or additional info section related to your Roth IRA entries.

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Yuki Tanaka

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Something similar happened to me - the warning is likely just telling you that you should know your basis for future reference. For most people with Roth IRAs who haven't made withdrawals, it doesn't actually affect your tax return. H&R Block is just being extra cautious.

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Carmen Diaz

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I've been using TaxAct for years and have never seen any warning about Roth IRA basis. I wonder if this is just an H&R Block thing or if I've been missing something important all along?

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With $405k income, I'd definitely get an accountant. I'm in a similar bracket and switched from TurboTax 3 years ago. My accountant found nearly $8k in tax savings my first year! Mostly through more aggressive but legitimate deductions and some restructuring of my investments. The key is finding someone who specializes in high-income professionals rather than just a general tax preparer.

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QuantumQuest

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That's impressive savings! Do you mind sharing what kinds of deductions they found that TurboTax missed? And approximately what you pay your accountant?

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The biggest win was identifying that some of my investment advisory fees were deductible in a way I hadn't been taking advantage of. Also found some home office deductions related to my W-2 job during 2020-2021 that I qualified for but didn't know about. I pay about $850 annually for tax preparation and filing. But the real value comes from quarterly check-ins for tax planning - we make adjustments throughout the year instead of just at tax time. This costs about $1200 more annually, but the savings and peace of mind are worth it.

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Unpopular opinion maybe but I make around $350k and still use TurboTax. Tried an accountant for two years and they literally saved me nothing beyond what I was already doing myself. Tax software has gotten really good. Unless you have a business, rental properties, or some complex situations, I don't see much benefit for W-2 employees even at higher incomes.

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Ava Thompson

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Agree 100%. I'm at $380k, all W-2 and investments like OP, and my accountant basically told me after 2 years that I didn't need him! Said TurboTax would do fine for my situation lol. Respectable honesty I guess?

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Glad to hear I'm not alone! I appreciate the accountant who admits when they're not adding enough value. Most retirement accounts are pretty straightforward max contributions, and standard investment stuff isn't that complex. I think where accountants shine is with business ownership, real estate, or unusual situations like foreign income. For regular employees, even high-income ones, tax software covers most bases pretty effectively.

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