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Something no one's mentioned yet is setting up a 529 plan for these kids. You could establish one for each child with yourself as the owner and them as beneficiaries. In many states, you'd get a state tax deduction for contributions (though not federal). The money grows tax-free if used for qualified education expenses. The downside is that 529 plans owned by non-parents can impact financial aid more negatively than direct tuition payments or gifts to parents, so timing matters. But the tax advantages might outweigh this depending on your state and situation.
That's an interesting option I hadn't considered! Do you know if there are any limits to how much I could contribute to a 529 annually? And would withdrawals from a 529 affect their financial aid differently than if we just paid tuition directly?
You can contribute up to the gift tax annual exclusion ($18,000 in 2025) per beneficiary without filing a gift tax return. You can even "superfund" a 529 with five years of contributions at once ($90,000 per beneficiary), though you'd need to file a gift tax return to elect this treatment. For financial aid impact, it's complicated. Direct tuition payments won't affect their FAFSA for the current year. But 529 distributions from accounts owned by anyone other than the parents or student are treated as student income on subsequent FAFSA forms, which can reduce aid eligibility by up to 50% of the distribution amount. This is why many advisors recommend using non-parent 529 funds for later years of college after the final FAFSA is filed.
Has anyone pointed out how generous this is? $15k per kid per year is HUGE! I'd suggest maybe considering putting some of this money toward helping them after college too - maybe helping with a first home down payment or something. College is important but so is launching into adulthood.
I think I can explain what's happening with line 17 in simpler terms. The confusion comes from the circular calculation problem. When you make retirement contributions as self-employed, those contributions are themselves a deduction that lowers your SE income. But your maximum contribution is based on that income! So there's a chicken-and-egg problem. The worksheet solves this by using an adjusted percentage. Instead of the straightforward 25% that most people expect, line 17 uses a reduced percentage (about 20%) that accounts for this circular relationship. That's why the number seems "wrong" but is actually correct.
Thanks for that explanation! Quick question - does this same circular calculation issue apply to both SEP IRAs and Solo 401ks? I'm trying to decide which one to open this year.
Yes, the circular calculation applies to both SEP IRAs and Solo 401k employer contributions. For both plans, the employer contribution limit is 25% of your net self-employment earnings, but the actual calculation works out to roughly 20% of your net profit. The big difference is that with a Solo 401k, you can also make employee contributions up to $22,500 for 2023 ($23,000 for 2024) that aren't affected by this calculation. That's why Solo 401ks often allow for higher total contributions, especially for people with moderate self-employment income.
has anyone looked at the latest version of this publication? i heard they actually fixed this in the 2024 version of publication 560, but i cant find the most recent pdf on irs.gov. the site keeps giving me last years version when i search.
I just checked and found the updated version. They didn't actually change the calculation, but they did add a clearer explanation of why line 17 uses that specific percentage. It's still the same formula, just better explained in the instructions section.
Just wanted to share - I got my interest fully abated in a similar situation by specifically citing Internal Revenue Manual 20.2.7.7, which covers interest abatement due to IRS errors or delays. The key was documenting that they had my foreign address from my FBAR filing but still sent important notices to my old US address. I also referenced the Taxpayer Bill of Rights which includes the right to be informed. Since the IRS didn't properly inform you about these payments while you were overseas, you have a strong case!
Thank you for sharing this specific IRM reference! This is exactly the kind of information I was hoping for. Did you handle this over the phone or did you need to submit something in writing with documentation?
I started over the phone by speaking with an IRS representative and explaining my situation, citing the specific IRM section. The agent advised me to follow up with a written request using Form 843. I attached documentation showing they had my foreign address on file (copies of previous correspondence I'd sent them with my updated address) and a timeline showing when I discovered the payments. I also included a short, clear letter explaining exactly why this qualified as an administrative error under IRM 20.2.7.7 and referencing the Taxpayer Bill of Rights. The whole process took about 8 weeks from submission to receiving confirmation that the interest was abated. Keep your explanation factual and concise - the clearer you make it for them, the more likely you are to succeed.
Be careful with interest abatement requests. I tried similar arguments last year and got rejected because I technically had online access to my IRS account and "should have" checked it. Make sure u document EVERYTHING and be super specific about why this was an IRS error not just confusion on ur part.
I think everyone's missing the bigger issue here. Forget the services and apps - you need to protect yourself legally ASAP. Document everything you've found that looks suspicious. Take photos, make copies, record dates and times of conversations. If your partner is committing tax fraud, that's a federal offense and you could be dragged down with them. I had a friend who ignored signs of partner fraud and ended up with a $45,000 penalty even though he "didn't know" what was happening. The IRS doesn't care about your ignorance - you signed as a partner.
This seems extreme. Wouldn't it be better to just have an honest conversation first before going all spy mode on your business partner? Maybe there are legitimate explanations for the expenses OP is questioning.
An honest conversation is absolutely worth trying, but documentation isn't being a spy - it's being prudent. If there are legitimate explanations, great! No harm done. But if there's actual fraud happening, a conversation won't protect you legally when the IRS comes knocking. You don't need to be secretive about it. You can directly say, "I've noticed these specific issues that concern me, and I'd like to understand them before signing our tax documents." Then document the explanation. Partnerships require trust, but they also require verification, especially when it comes to tax compliance where both parties share liability.
Has anyone considered that maybe OP is overreacting? I'm not saying ignore red flags, but sometimes what looks like "fraud" to someone without accounting knowledge might just be legitimate tax strategies. My partner used to freak out about our business deductions until our accountant explained everything. Not saying that's definitely what's happening here, but worth considering before blowing up a partnership?
I definitely considered that possibility, which is why I've been hesitant to make accusations. I do have a basic understanding of business accounting - I handle about half of our bookkeeping normally. What concerns me isn't creative accounting or aggressive deductions - it's things like expenses with altered receipts (literally different ink and handwriting changing amounts) and several cash payments to "contractors" that I've never heard of with no corresponding work I can identify. I'm planning to talk to an independent CPA this week before confronting my partner again. I genuinely hope there are explanations I'm missing, but some of this stuff seems really blatant.
Natasha Orlova
7 Another option you might consider is having your operating company (Blue Ridge LLC) make a capital contribution to the second LLC rather than structuring it as a loan. The downside is you wouldn't get the interest deduction, but it simplifies the arrangement. Or, you could have the second LLC (Sunset) be a wholly-owned subsidiary of Blue Ridge. In that case, if you're doing single-member LLCs with pass-through taxation, it might all end up on the same Schedule E anyway (depending on how you've elected to be taxed). Just some alternatives to consider that might be simpler than navigating the interest tracing rules.
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Natasha Orlova
ā¢10 Wouldn't making Sunset a subsidiary of Blue Ridge defeat the purpose of having separate LLCs for liability protection though? I thought the whole point was to keep the properties legally separate so problems with one don't affect the other.
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Natasha Orlova
ā¢7 You raise an excellent point about liability protection. Yes, having Sunset as a subsidiary of Blue Ridge would potentially undermine some of the liability protection since they would be connected entities. If liability protection between properties is your primary concern, then keeping them as truly separate entities makes sense. In that case, the capital contribution approach might not be ideal either. You might be better off having Sunset LLC obtain its own financing directly for the new property purchase. That way each property and its associated debt are clearly contained within their respective entities, and the interest expense clearly matches the income-producing activity in each LLC.
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Natasha Orlova
22 My accountant told me that the IRS cares more about substance over form in these cases. If you're the 100% owner of both LLCs and they're both disregarded entities (single-member LLCs), all this might be a moot point because everything flows to your personal return anyway. The interest would be deductible as business interest regardless of which LLC technically holds the loan. Now if they're different tax entities (like one's a partnership and one's an S-Corp) or have different owners, that's where it gets complicated and the interest tracing rules become super important.
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Natasha Orlova
ā¢1 That makes a lot of sense and aligns with what I've read. Both LLCs are indeed single-member and disregarded for tax purposes, flowing through to my personal return. I was overthinking this! If everything ends up on my Schedule E anyway, then the interest should be deductible against my rental income regardless of which LLC technically has the loan or property. I guess the important thing is just making sure I have proper documentation showing the business purpose of the loan (acquiring rental property). Thanks for pointing this out - sometimes the simplest answer is right there but easy to miss when you're deep in the details!
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