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I did exactly what you're asking about last year and ended up getting a notice from the IRS. Had to refile and pay penalties plus interest. Even my accountant missed this! S-corp owners HAVE to be W-2 employees if they're performing services. end of story.
How much were the penalties? I think I might have messed this up last year but haven't heard anything from the IRS yet.
I had to pay about $3700 in penalties plus the additional employer-side payroll taxes I should have been paying all along. Plus I had to amend my personal return since I had incorrectly filed Schedule C income. The bigger hassle honestly was correcting all the paperwork and getting back in compliance. The IRS actually told me I was lucky they caught it early - apparently the penalties get much worse if they determine you're intentionally trying to avoid payroll taxes. They were reasonable since I could show it was a legitimate misunderstanding.
Just wanted to chime in as someone who made this exact mistake when I first started my S Corp. I thought I was being clever by avoiding payroll taxes, but it backfired spectacularly. The IRS has very specific rules about S Corp shareholder-employees - if you're providing services to the corporation (which you clearly are as an IT consultant), you MUST be treated as an employee with proper W-2 wages. The "reasonable salary" requirement exists specifically to prevent what you're thinking about doing. The whole point of an S Corp is that you pay employment taxes on your salary, then take additional profits as distributions (which aren't subject to SE tax). If you could just pay yourself as a contractor, everyone would do it to avoid payroll taxes entirely. My advice: set up proper payroll for yourself immediately. Yes, it's more paperwork and you'll pay both sides of payroll taxes on your salary portion, but it's the only compliant way to do this. The tax savings on your distributions will more than make up for it, and you'll avoid the audit risk and penalties that come with trying to game the system.
This is really helpful advice, thank you! I'm curious - when you say "reasonable salary," did you find any good resources for determining what that should be for IT consulting work? I'm worried about setting it too low and getting flagged, but also don't want to pay more payroll taxes than necessary. Did you use any specific benchmarking tools or just go with what similar W-2 positions pay in your area?
@f95cd05f9a9d Great question! When I went through this, I ended up using a combination of approaches. First, I looked at Bureau of Labor Statistics data for IT consultants in my metro area - that gave me a baseline range. Then I researched what similar W-2 positions were paying on sites like Glassdoor and Indeed. The key thing I learned is that your salary should reflect what you'd reasonably pay someone else to do the same work you're doing for the S Corp. So if you're doing high-level consulting work that would command $80-100k as a W-2 employee, you can't justify paying yourself $40k just to minimize payroll taxes. I ended up settling on about 60% of my total S Corp income as salary, with the rest as distributions. That felt defensible based on the market data I gathered. My CPA said that ratio was reasonable for someone who's essentially the sole revenue generator for their consulting practice. The IRS publication 15-A has some guidance on this, and definitely document your reasoning in case you ever need to justify it later!
I've been through this exact scenario with multiple PTP investments over the years, and you're definitely not alone in this frustration! The good news is that receiving K-1s after filing is extremely common with PTPs, and the IRS is generally understanding about this timing issue. For your Section 751 statement, you'll need to file Form 1040-X to amend your return. The key information should be on the transaction schedule that came with your K-1 - look for any amounts labeled as "Section 751(a) ordinary income" or similar language about "hot assets." A few practical tips from my experience: - Don't stress about penalties - if you file the amendment within a reasonable time after receiving the K-1, you're usually fine - The Section 751 statement itself is just a simple document showing the breakdown between ordinary income and capital gain portions of your sale - Keep copies of everything, including the date you received the K-1, in case you need to explain the timing later Since you mentioned the profit wasn't huge, the actual tax impact might be smaller than you're worried about. The main thing is getting it reported correctly. Consider this a learning experience for future PTP investments - now you know to expect these complications!
This is really helpful advice, thank you! I'm curious about something you mentioned - when you say "within a reasonable time" for filing the amendment, is there a specific timeframe the IRS considers acceptable? I'm worried because my K-1 arrived about 6 weeks after I filed my original return. Also, did you ever have issues with the IRS questioning why you didn't wait for all your tax documents before filing initially?
@Natasha Volkova Six weeks is totally reasonable - I ve'seen people file amendments 3-4 months after receiving late K-1s without any issues. The IRS doesn t'have a specific published timeframe, but generally anything within the same tax year or shortly after is considered acceptable, especially when you can document that the K-1 arrived late. I ve'never had the IRS question why I filed before receiving all documents. The reality is that many taxpayers don t'realize they re'going to receive K-1s, and even experienced investors sometimes get surprised by timing. PTPs are notorious for sending K-1s right at the deadline or even requesting extensions. In your situation, you actually did the right thing by filing on time with the information you had. The IRS would much rather see you file timely and then amend when you get additional information than file late waiting for documents that may or may not arrive. Just include a brief note with your 1040-X explaining that you received the K-1 after your original filing date - that shows you re'being proactive about compliance.
I went through this exact nightmare with Energy Transfer (ET) two years ago! The Section 751 reporting requirements caught me completely off guard too. Here's what I learned that might help you: First, don't panic about the timing - late K-1s are incredibly common with PTPs, and the IRS knows this. You're actually in good company since most PTP investors end up filing amendments. For your Section 751 statement, look at your K-1's transaction schedule for any line items showing "ordinary income under Section 751" or similar language about unrealized receivables. That's the amount that gets treated as ordinary income instead of capital gains when you sold your MMP position. The process is pretty straightforward once you know what to do: 1. File Form 1040-X (amended return) 2. Create a simple Section 751 statement showing the breakdown 3. Report the ordinary income portion on Form 4797 4. Report the remaining capital gain on Schedule D Since you only held for 3 months and the profit wasn't huge, the actual tax difference might be minimal. The important thing is getting it reported correctly. I'd recommend just biting the bullet and filing the amendment ASAP - better to deal with it now than worry about it later. Also, lesson learned for future reference: if you're thinking about investing in any more PTPs, maybe wait until after tax season to buy them, or at least be prepared for this complexity!
Has anyone else noticed that the HSA contribution limits for 2020 are way lower than 2023? I just saw that for 2023 they're $3,850 individual and $7,750 family. Wish they'd bump these up more aggressively with inflation - healthcare costs are insane these days!
This is a really helpful thread! I'm in a similar situation but with a twist - I'm 24 and on my dad's HDHP, but I also have a part-time job that offers an HSA. My employer keeps telling me I can contribute the family amount since I'm "on a family plan," but based on what everyone's saying here, that sounds wrong. It seems like the consensus is that since I'm only covering myself (even though I'm on someone else's family plan), I should only be able to contribute the individual limit of $3,550 for 2020. Is that right? I'm worried my employer's HR department is giving me bad advice and I'll end up with penalties. Also, does it matter that my dad probably isn't contributing to an HSA at all? He's not really into that stuff and just uses the insurance for basic coverage. Would that change anything about my contribution limits?
OP I've been a full-time youtuber for 3 years now and the biggest mistake I made was trying to DIY my taxes the first year. Even with all the online advice, I missed so many legit deductions and probably overpaid by thousands $$$. My advice: find a CPA who works with content creators specifically. Regular tax preparers often don't understand our weird mix of expenses and income streams. Might cost $300-500 for tax prep but you'll likely save way more than that in deductions they'll find that you'd miss.
Any tips on finding a CPA who actually understands content creation? I went to one last year and they had no clue what Twitch was or how sponsorship deals work. Made me feel like I knew more than they did which wasn't reassuring.
Start by asking other creators in your network who they use. There are also some Facebook groups for content creators where people share recommendations for CPA services. Look for someone who has experience with social media businesses specifically - they'll immediately understand terms like CPM, affiliate marketing, etc. If you can't find a specialized CPA locally, many now work remotely with clients nationwide. I actually found mine through Twitter when I saw them posting tax tips specifically for YouTubers. When you interview potential CPAs, ask specific questions about your income streams to gauge their familiarity. Any CPA who's worked with creators before won't be confused by concepts like subscribers, monetization requirements, or platform percentage cuts.
Just my two cents - be careful with deducting things you haven't used yet. My brother got audited last year for his small business and the IRS was particularly interested in equipment he'd purchased but hadn't deployed in his business yet. He ended up having to prove he had a legitimate business need for the items at the time of purchase. He had emails and business plans showing his intent, so he was fine, but it was definitely a stressful experience.
What kind of documentation did he end up showing them? Just curious what actually satisfies the IRS in these situations.
This is really helpful to know! What kind of documentation did your brother use to prove business intent? I'm in a similar boat with some camera equipment and editing software I bought but haven't had a chance to use yet. I want to make sure I'm keeping the right records in case I ever get audited.
Emma Thompson
Has anyone successfully negotiated with their employer to reduce the Annual Lease Value used in these calculations? My company is using the maximum value in the IRS range for our vehicle class, and I think they could justifiably use a lower value.
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Malik Davis
ā¢I actually did this at my last job. The key is to research the actual fair market value of your specific vehicle (make, model, year, options). Then bring that documentation to HR along with the IRS ALV table showing which range it falls into. In my case, they were using a value based on the most expensive trim level of our company cars, when most of us had the base model. Got them to reduce the ALV by about $1,200, which saved me around $300 a year based on my personal use percentage. Most employers want to be fair, they just don't want to do extra work figuring out individual values.
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Paolo Marino
This is exactly the kind of situation where having proper documentation becomes crucial. I went through something similar when I first got a company car and the deductions seemed way off. A few things to double-check beyond what others have mentioned: 1. Make sure your employer is using the correct "first made available" date for determining the fair market value. If you got the car 6 months ago, they should be using the FMV from when you first received it, not when the company originally purchased/leased it. 2. Verify that they're calculating your personal use percentage correctly. Some companies incorrectly include weekends and holidays when the car just sits in your driveway as "personal use days" rather than basing it purely on actual mileage. 3. Ask for a detailed breakdown of how they calculated both the ALV and your personal use percentage. You're entitled to understand exactly how they arrived at these numbers. The $10,250 ALV does seem high for a basic mid-size sedan unless it's a newer model with higher-end features. I'd definitely recommend looking up your specific vehicle on KBB or Edmunds to get the fair market value, then cross-reference that with the IRS ALV tables to see if they're in the right ballpark. Don't be afraid to push back if the numbers don't add up - most payroll departments will work with you if you can show them specific documentation that their calculations might be off.
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