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I'm confused about something slightly different but related. If my ISOs were underwater when I exercised them (like yours), but then I hold them and they go up in value later, does that somehow trigger AMT retroactively? Or is AMT only based on the value at the exact time of exercise?

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AMT for ISOs is only based on the value at the exact time of exercise, not any future value changes. If they were underwater when you exercised, there's no AMT issue regardless of whether they later increase in value. When you eventually sell, you'll have regular capital gains calculations based on your purchase price (basis) and the sale price. But that's completely separate from AMT considerations, which are locked in at exercise time.

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You're absolutely right to be confused about this - the ISO/AMT rules are pretty complex! But the good news is that when your ISOs have a negative spread (exercise price higher than FMV), you don't need to worry about AMT at all for those specific exercises. The AMT adjustment for ISOs only applies when there's a positive "bargain element" - meaning you're getting shares worth more than what you paid. Since your shares were worth less than your exercise price when you exercised, there's no bargain element to report. You should definitely keep your Form 3921 for your records though, as you'll need it when you eventually sell the shares to calculate your capital gains/losses. Your cost basis will be whatever you actually paid (the exercise price), not the lower FMV at exercise time. So no Form 6251 needed for these underwater ISOs specifically, unless you have other AMT-triggering items in your tax situation!

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KylieRose

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This is super helpful, thank you! I was getting really stressed about potentially messing up my taxes. Just to double-check my understanding - even though I received the Form 3921 showing the negative spread, I literally don't need to do anything with it for AMT purposes this tax year? And when I do eventually sell (hopefully when the stock recovers!), I'll use the higher exercise price I actually paid as my basis, which might actually work out in my favor tax-wise if the sale price is somewhere between the old FMV and what I paid?

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Has anyone noticed if having tax fees taken out of your refund affects the timing? I'm wondering if that extra step with the tax preparer's bank might cause delays compared to people who paid their filing fees upfront.

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Zara Malik

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That's a really good point about the tax prep fees! When you have fees taken out of your refund, it goes through a third-party bank (usually Santa Barbara Tax Products Group or Republic Bank) first, and they deduct the fees before sending the remainder to your actual bank. This can definitely add 1-2 extra business days to the process. I learned this the hard way last year when my refund was delayed and I couldn't figure out why until my tax preparer explained the extra routing step.

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I'm with Brinks too and have a 3/15 DDD - still waiting as of this morning. Based on what I'm seeing here, it sounds like Brinks is pretty reliable about hitting the exact date rather than depositing early like some other banks. @Amina Bah, thanks for confirming you got yours today with the same DDD! That gives me confidence mine should hit soon. I'm curious though - for those who've used Brinks for multiple tax seasons, have you noticed any pattern with what time of day the deposits typically show up? Some banks seem to process these overnight while others do it during business hours.

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How to Combine Section 1031 and 121 Exclusions for Real Estate Transactions

My parents purchased their home about 12 years ago for around $650k and it's now worth approximately $1.8 million. My husband and I are trying to figure out how to help them minimize taxes while also helping us with our housing situation for a couple years. Their plan is to move to a rental in an area they prefer, rent their current house to us for about 2 years, then sell it and buy another property as an investment. I'm trying to understand how Sections 121 and 1031 would work together in this scenario. From what I've researched, they could exclude $500k of the capital gains using Section 121 (married filing jointly). Then they could use a 1031 exchange to defer taxes on the remaining capital gains by purchasing another investment property they'd keep for at least 2 years. But I have several questions: 1) How much of the sale proceeds needs to be invested in the new property to fully defer taxes? The entire $1.8M? Or just $1.15M (sale price minus original basis)? Or is it $650k (the amount after excluding the $500k under Section 121)? 2) Is 2 years sufficient for converting a primary residence to a rental property for these purposes? I've heard varied opinions on this. 3) If we pay my parents fair market rent, would there be any issues if they later gift some money back to us (with proper gift tax filing)? 4) What would my parents' basis be in the new investment property? How exactly does the basis carry over? Any insights would be greatly appreciated! This is complex territory for us.

Question about the property value - has anyone considered the potential for further appreciation during the 2-year rental period? If the property is already worth $1.8M and continues to appreciate while being rented, wouldn't that affect the calculations?

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Carmen Ortiz

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That's an excellent point! Yes, if the property continues to appreciate during the rental period, the deferred gain would be larger. Let's say it appreciates another $200k over those two years to $2M. In that case, the total gain would be $1.35M ($2M minus $650k basis). They'd still get the $500k Section 121 exclusion if they qualify, leaving $850k of gain to be deferred through the 1031 exchange. They'd need to purchase a replacement property worth at least $2M (assuming that's the net sales price after selling expenses), and their basis in the new property would be $1.15M ($2M minus $850k). The other factor to consider is depreciation. During the rental period, they'll need to take depreciation on the building portion of the property (not the land), which will reduce their basis slightly and create depreciation recapture tax when they sell, which is taxed at a maximum rate of 25% regardless of the 1031 exchange.

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Great discussion everyone! I'm dealing with a similar situation and wanted to add a few considerations that might be helpful. One thing I learned from my tax attorney is that the "step transaction doctrine" mentioned earlier can be tricky with family arrangements. The IRS might look at the entire sequence - converting to rental, renting to family, then selling and exchanging - as one integrated transaction rather than separate steps. To avoid this, your parents should establish clear business motivations for each step. Also, regarding the depreciation point that Carmen mentioned - this is crucial. Once your parents start renting the property, they'll be required to take depreciation deductions (even if they don't claim them, the IRS assumes they did). This creates "depreciation recapture" that must be paid even in a 1031 exchange - it can't be deferred like capital gains. For the gift situation, consider having your parents charge you market rent but then help you in other ways that are clearly separate from the rental relationship - maybe contributing to a down payment fund for your future home purchase, but do this well before or after the rental period to avoid any appearance of connection. Finally, make sure to document everything meticulously. Keep records of comparable rents in the area, maintain the property like any other rental (repairs, maintenance, etc.), and treat it as a true business relationship even though it's family.

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CyberNinja

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I ended up using TaxCycle for my 941X filings and it helped quite a bit with getting the calculations right. Still took almost 5 months to get the credit though.

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Mateo Lopez

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Did you file paper forms or electronic? I'm wondering if one method is faster than the other for processing.

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Sunny Wang

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I'm in a very similar situation - filed my 941X forms for 2020 ERTC in March and still waiting. Based on what I'm seeing here, it sounds like we're right in that 4-6 month window that seems to be typical. One thing that's been helpful for me is keeping detailed records of when I filed and what I submitted. I created a simple spreadsheet tracking my filing dates, amounts claimed, and any correspondence. This way when I do eventually call the IRS (probably around the 5-month mark based on the advice here), I'll have everything organized. For what it's worth, I did file electronically through my tax software, and my CPA mentioned that electronic filings might have a slight advantage in processing time since there's no manual data entry required. Though with the volume of claims they're dealing with, I'm not sure it makes a huge difference. Hang in there - sounds like most people are eventually getting their credits, it's just taking much longer than anyone expected!

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Aidan Percy

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That's a great idea about keeping detailed records in a spreadsheet! I wish I had thought of that when I started this process. I'm currently at the 2-month mark waiting for my Q1 2020 ERTC filing, and it's reassuring to hear that most people are eventually getting their credits even if it takes longer than expected. Did your CPA mention anything about whether there are certain red flags that might cause additional delays? I'm a bit worried since my business is relatively small and the credit amount is substantial compared to our typical payroll - wondering if that triggers extra scrutiny. Also curious if anyone has tried following up before the 5-month mark just to confirm the IRS actually received the filing? Sometimes I worry it got lost in the mail or something went wrong with the electronic submission.

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Miguel Silva

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Any idea what form I need to use for this? Is it just part of Schedule C if I'm a sole proprietor? Or does it go somewhere specific on my 1120 for my S-Corp?

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For a sole proprietor, it would go on Schedule C under "Advertising" (line 8) or "Other expenses" where you'd specify "Marketing/Sponsorship." For an S-Corp on Form 1120-S, it would typically go on line 22 for "Advertising." Make sure to keep detailed records either way!

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Lim Wong

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This sounds like a fantastic marketing opportunity! As others have mentioned, this would definitely qualify as a deductible business expense under advertising/marketing. The $15,000 cost is substantial but could be very worthwhile if it generates good community buzz and brand recognition. One thing I'd add that I haven't seen mentioned yet - consider reaching out to local media ahead of time. Having The Sandlot actors at a community baseball event could generate some great press coverage, which would amplify your marketing investment. Local newspapers, radio stations, and TV news often love these kinds of nostalgic community events. Also, make sure to get photos and video of your company's signage and recognition at the event. This documentation serves double duty - it helps with tax compliance by proving the business purpose, and you can use the content for future marketing on your website and social media. The key is treating this as a serious marketing campaign rather than just a fun sponsorship. Document everything, measure what you can, and leverage it beyond just the single event. Good luck with it!

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