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This is exactly the kind of confusion that happens when you're new to having employees! The good news is that since you only paid $270 for what sounds like a one-time gig, you're likely in a much simpler situation than you think. Based on what you've described - paying someone to help with your side business for a short period - this really sounds like independent contractor work rather than traditional employment. If you didn't control how or when they did the work and just paid them for completing a task, that's typically contractor territory. Since contractors only require a 1099-NEC if you pay them $600 or more in a year, your $270 payment probably doesn't trigger any federal filing requirements at all. No Form 941, no Form 944, no Form 940 - just keep the receipt as a business expense. However, if you're certain they were an employee (you controlled their work schedule, provided tools, etc.), then Ashley's advice about Form 944 vs 941 is spot-on. But honestly, I'd recommend taking a step back and really evaluating whether this was employee vs contractor work first. It could save you a lot of paperwork!

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This is really helpful context! I'm new to this community but have been dealing with similar small business employment questions. The contractor vs employee distinction is so important and often overlooked. @Miguel Harvey - Based on your description of paying your neighbor s'kid to help organize inventory as a one-time thing, that definitely sounds like contractor work to me too. The key factors that point to contractor status are: it was a one-time gig, you likely didn t'provide specific training or tools, and you probably just paid them when the task was completed rather than controlling their daily work schedule. Since you re'under the $600 threshold for 1099-NEC filing, you re'probably in the clear for any federal tax forms related to this payment. Just keep good records of the $270 as a business expense. Way simpler than all the payroll tax complications everyone was discussing! If you do hire people regularly in the future though, definitely worth understanding the employee vs contractor rules upfront to avoid confusion.

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Amina Diallo

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This thread has been super helpful for understanding the contractor vs employee distinction! As someone who's also navigating small business employment issues for the first time, I wanted to add that even if Miguel's situation turns out to be contractor work (which seems likely given the one-time nature and $270 amount), it's still worth understanding these Form 941/944 rules for future reference. One thing I learned recently is that the IRS has some really good resources on their website about worker classification - Publication 15-A has detailed examples that can help determine if someone is an employee or contractor. The "behavioral control," "financial control," and "relationship type" tests they outline are pretty straightforward once you understand them. Also, for anyone else reading this thread, state requirements can be different from federal ones. Some states have stricter rules about worker classification or lower thresholds for various tax filings, so it's always worth checking your specific state's requirements even if you're clear on the federal side. Miguel, definitely sounds like you're probably dealing with a contractor situation and can skip all the payroll tax headaches, but keeping good records of that $270 payment is still important for your business expense deductions!

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I'm currently going through this exact same nightmare! Filed our S-Corp election in March and have been stuck in IRS limbo for months with no CP261. This thread has been incredibly valuable - it's both frustrating and reassuring to see how widespread this issue is. I'm planning to implement the multi-pronged approach that several people have had success with: filing Form 911 with TAS, sending a certified letter to Cincinnati, and using the strategic language tips when calling. The "entity determination" and "Entity Classification Election Acknowledgment" terminology suggestions are brilliant - I tried the entity determination approach yesterday and actually got transferred to someone more knowledgeable for the first time in weeks. One additional tip I learned from my tax attorney: when documenting your calls (which everyone should absolutely be doing), include the employee ID numbers if the representatives provide them. This can be helpful if TAS or Cincinnati needs to reference your previous attempts when working on your case. The success stories from Dmitry, Victoria, and others give me hope that persistence with multiple channels really does pay off. Starting my Form 911 application today and getting that certified letter ready for Cincinnati. Thanks to everyone who shared their experiences - this community support makes navigating this bureaucratic nightmare much less isolating!

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Emma Wilson

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Clarissa, I'm so sorry you're going through this too! It's incredible how many of us are dealing with the exact same S-Corp election nightmare. This thread has been a lifeline for me as well - finally having a roadmap instead of just banging my head against the wall with endless phone calls. Your tip about collecting employee ID numbers is really smart! I wish I had known to do that during my earlier calls. I'm definitely going to start asking for those moving forward, especially since I'm planning to try the multi-pronged approach everyone's been recommending. I just wanted to add one thing I learned from my experience this week - when you're preparing that certified letter to Cincinnati, make sure to include a statement about how this delay is affecting your business operations and tax compliance. My accountant mentioned that showing business impact sometimes helps prioritize these requests. It's so encouraging to see people like Victoria and Dmitry actually getting through this mess successfully. The fact that multiple approaches are working gives me confidence that persistence really will pay off. I'm starting my Form 911 today too - hopefully we'll both have good news to report back soon! Best of luck with your applications. This community support has been amazing through such a frustrating process.

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AaliyahAli

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I'm dealing with this exact same S-Corp election nightmare right now! Filed Form 2553 in February and have been stuck in the same endless loop of IRS phone transfers and non-responses for months. This thread has been absolutely invaluable - it's both maddening and comforting to see how widespread this CP261 issue is. Reading through everyone's experiences and solutions has given me the first real hope I've had in weeks. I'm definitely going to implement the multi-pronged strategy that multiple people have had success with: filing Form 911 with TAS, sending that certified letter to the Cincinnati office, and using the strategic calling approaches with "entity determination" language. The fact that people like Dmitry, Victoria, and others actually got resolution through these methods gives me confidence that persistence will pay off. One thing I wanted to add - my CPA mentioned that we should also consider requesting a transcript of our business account from the IRS, as sometimes S-Corp elections show up there even when representatives claim they can't find any record. You can request it through Form 4506-T or sometimes online through the Business Online Account system. Starting my documentation log today (wish I'd done this months ago!) and preparing my Form 911 application. Thanks to everyone who shared their stories and solutions - this community support makes navigating this bureaucratic maze so much more manageable!

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Ravi Sharma

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Don't forget about the actual allocation process once you've got your total purchase price (including assumed debt)! The IRS is super picky about how you allocate across the 7 asset classes. You have to go in order from Class I to Class VII and you can't just randomly assign values. This matters because different classes get different tax treatment.

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Does anyone have a good example of how to properly allocate? I'm buying a small manufacturing business with machinery, inventory, and some customer contracts. No idea how to value each part realistically.

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Caden Nguyen

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For manufacturing businesses, you'll typically need to get professional appraisals for the machinery and equipment to establish fair market values. Inventory should be valued at cost or market value, whichever is lower. Customer contracts and relationships are trickier - they usually fall into Class VI (Section 197 intangibles) and might require a business valuation expert to determine their worth. The key is documenting how you arrived at each value because the IRS will want to see your methodology if they audit. I'd strongly recommend getting at least the major equipment appraised professionally since that's usually the biggest chunk of value in manufacturing deals.

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Felicity Bud

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I went through this exact same situation when I bought a restaurant last year. The confusion about where to put assumed debt on Form 8594 is super common because the IRS instructions are terrible about explaining it clearly. What helped me understand it was thinking of it like buying a house with a mortgage - you're still "paying" the full purchase price even though part of it is debt you're taking on. In your case, you gave the seller $133k cash AND took on $42k in debt obligations, so your total consideration is $175k. The key thing that tripped me up initially was realizing that Form 8594 doesn't have a separate line for "debt assumed" - it just cares about the total purchase price and how you allocate that across asset classes. So you put $175k as your total consideration, then figure out how much of that $175k should be allocated to equipment (Class V), inventory (Class IV), etc. Make sure you keep good documentation of the debt assumption in your purchase agreement since that supports the $175k total if the IRS ever asks questions later.

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The restaurant purchase analogy really helps clarify this! I was getting hung up on the fact that I didn't physically write a check for the full $175k, but you're absolutely right that taking on debt is still "payment" from the IRS perspective. One follow-up question - when you allocated your total purchase price across the asset classes, did you run into any issues with the equipment that had loans attached? Like, do you value that equipment at its fair market value or at the remaining loan balance? I'm worried about getting the allocation wrong since most of my assumed debt is tied to specific pieces of printing equipment.

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Taylor Chen

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Anyone else think the W-4 system is totally broken? Why do we have to figure this out ourselves? The government already knows how much we should be paying!

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100% agree! Other countries just send you a bill or refund automatically. The US system is designed to be confusing so tax prep companies can make money. It's ridiculous.

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Liam McGuire

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This is exactly what happened to us a few years ago! We learned the hard way that claiming the same child on both W-4s is a recipe for underwithholding. Here's what we did to fix it: 1. We had the higher earner (in your case, the $70K spouse) claim the child on their W-4 2. The lower earner ($45K spouse) should file a new W-4 with "Single or Married Filing Separately" checked in Step 1, even though you're married - this increases withholding 3. Consider adding extra withholding on one or both W-4s to be safe The income difference between you two isn't huge, but the higher earner claiming the child will still result in slightly better withholding accuracy. Most importantly, get those new W-4s submitted ASAP since you're already behind on withholding for this year. Pro tip: After you make the changes, check your next few pay stubs to make sure the withholding increased appropriately. You should see a noticeable bump in federal tax withheld from the higher earner's paycheck.

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This is really helpful advice! I'm curious about the "Single or Married Filing Separately" tip for the lower earner's W-4. Won't that cause problems since we're actually filing jointly? I've never heard of doing that before but it sounds like a clever way to increase withholding. Does the IRS care that the W-4 status doesn't match how we actually file our return?

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How does per diem split work for taxes on a year+ contract position?

I need some insight on a job offer situation that feels sketchy from a tax perspective. I'm a software engineer interviewing with a major corporation that only offers contract-to-hire positions. The recruiter presented me with an offer package of $85/hour, with a whopping $42/hour designated as "per diem" which they repeatedly emphasized would be untaxable income. I've been doing my own taxes for years and have experience with per diems for business travel, but this seems different. This job would require relocating across the country to Massachusetts with the expectation I'd be working there for several years. The company estimates it would take about 18 months before converting to direct employment. The recruiter is claiming that approximately $85K of my annual compensation would be untaxed as per diem. When I pressed for details, they vaguely described it as "relocation compensation" that qualifies as per diem and isn't taxable. My research hasn't yielded clear answers on whether this type of per diem split is legitimate. From what I understand, per diems are typically for temporary business travel expenses, not long-term compensation structures. Something feels off about this arrangement, and I'm concerned it could lead to significant tax problems down the road. Has anyone dealt with a similar situation or have expertise on per diem splits for long-term contract positions? I don't want to get caught in potential tax fraud if the IRS doesn't view this arrangement as legitimate.

Ezra Collins

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This thread has been absolutely invaluable for understanding the serious risks behind these per diem schemes. As a newcomer to the contracting world, I had no idea how widespread these questionable arrangements were or how devastating the consequences could be. What really struck me was the consistency of everyone's advice - from experienced contractors to those with government compliance backgrounds, everyone is saying the same thing: these arrangements are extremely risky and not worth the potential consequences. The $40K audit story and the escalation to potential criminal fraud charges really drive home just how much is at stake. The practical advice about requesting written documentation from tax professionals seems like such a simple but effective litmus test. If recruiters are confident these arrangements are legitimate, they should have no problem providing proper backing. Their refusal or defensiveness tells you everything you need to know. For Sofia and anyone else facing similar situations, it sounds like the safest approach is to counter with a fully taxable offer at the equivalent rate and walk away if they won't restructure it properly. No job opportunity is worth risking your financial future or legal standing. This is exactly the kind of community knowledge sharing that helps people avoid costly mistakes. Thanks to everyone who took the time to share their expertise and real-world experiences!

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This discussion has been incredibly educational for understanding the serious pitfalls of per diem schemes in contracting. As someone completely new to government services and tax compliance issues, I'm shocked by how predatory these arrangements seem to be. What really concerns me is how these recruiters specifically target contractors who may not be familiar with complex IRS regulations. The fact that they're actively encouraging tax fraud with suggestions like maintaining false residency documentation shows just how unethical these operations are. The progression from what seems like a "sweet deal" to potential criminal fraud charges is terrifying. It really makes you appreciate why experienced contractors and compliance professionals are so adamant about avoiding these schemes entirely. I'm grateful for all the practical advice shared here - especially the strategy of requesting written documentation from tax professionals as a way to separate legitimate opportunities from potential scams. This thread should be required reading for anyone entering the contracting world. Sofia's instincts were clearly right on target. Sometimes that gut feeling that something is "sketchy" is your best protection against making a costly mistake that could follow you for years.

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This whole discussion has been incredibly enlightening about the predatory nature of these per diem schemes. As someone who's been in government contracting for over a decade, I can confirm that these arrangements have become increasingly common and increasingly scrutinized by the IRS. What I find most concerning is how these recruiting firms specifically target software engineers and other high-paid contractors who may not have deep tax expertise. They present these schemes as "industry standard" or "tax optimization" when they're really just shifting compliance risk entirely onto the contractor. The key point that keeps getting reinforced here is that legitimate per diem requires a genuine temporary work assignment away from your established tax home. A planned 18+ month relocation with expected permanent conversion completely fails this test under any reasonable interpretation of IRS guidelines. I've personally seen the aftermath of these schemes - contractors who thought they were being savvy about taxes suddenly facing audit bills that exceeded their entire annual savings. The interest and penalties compound quickly, and the stress of dealing with IRS enforcement can be overwhelming. For Sofia and others facing similar offers, I'd echo the advice about requesting written tax opinions and being prepared to walk away. The contracting market has plenty of legitimate opportunities that don't require gambling with your financial future. Your instincts about this being sketchy are absolutely correct - trust them.

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This perspective from someone with over a decade in government contracting really reinforces everything we've been discussing here. Your point about these firms specifically targeting high-paid professionals who may lack deep tax expertise is spot on - it's a deliberate strategy to exploit knowledge gaps. The characterization of these as "tax optimization" rather than what they actually are - compliance risk shifting - perfectly captures the deceptive nature of how these schemes are marketed. Contractors think they're getting sophisticated financial advice when they're really being set up as the fall guy if anything goes wrong. Your observation about legitimate per diem requiring genuine temporary assignments is crucial. The 18+ month timeline with planned permanent conversion that Sofia described fails every possible test for temporary work status under IRS guidelines. There's simply no reasonable interpretation under which this arrangement would be compliant. The compound interest and penalties you mentioned from audit situations really drive home why the perceived short-term tax advantage is such a false economy. Even if you never face criminal charges, the financial consequences alone can be devastating and long-lasting. Thanks for adding your experienced voice to this discussion - it really helps validate what everyone has been saying about the serious risks involved with these schemes.

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