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Ask the community...

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Yuki Tanaka

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I'm still confused about one thing - if I do a Roth conversion in September 2025, should I pay the ENTIRE estimated tax on that amount with my third quarter estimated tax payment? Or should I split it between Q3 and Q4 payments?

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Jamal Brown

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If you do a conversion in September 2025, you could split the estimated tax between your September and January payments (Q3 and Q4). Since the income happened in Q3, you wouldn't need to retroactively cover Q1 and Q2. The safest approach would be to calculate what your Q3 payment would be including the income from the conversion, then do the same for Q4. This would show you're paying as the income is received.

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Ezra Beard

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Great question about the timing! I went through this exact scenario last year when I did a $30k Roth conversion in August. The key insight is that you're not penalized for "missing" estimated payments on income that hadn't occurred yet. So if you convert in September, you only need to account for that income in your Q3 and Q4 estimated payments. Here's what I did: I calculated my Q3 estimated payment to include the conversion income (since it happened in Q3), then made sure my Q4 payment covered the remaining amount based on my total projected tax liability for the year. One tip that really helped me - I used the "annualized income installment method" on Form 2210 when I filed. This tells the IRS exactly when your income came in during the year and prevents any underpayment penalties for the earlier quarters. The IRS actually expects uneven income throughout the year (that's why they have these provisions), so don't stress too much about the timing as long as you handle the remaining payments correctly!

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Miguel Ramos

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Thanks for sharing your experience! This is really helpful. One quick follow-up question - when you used the annualized income installment method on Form 2210, did you have to provide documentation showing exactly when the conversion happened? Or does the IRS just take your word for it based on what you report on the form? I'm planning a similar conversion for later this year and want to make sure I have all the right paperwork ready when I file.

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Dylan Cooper

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I'm dealing with a very similar situation right now - filed my 83B election from overseas (Japan in my case) and it's been radio silence from the IRS for months. The international mail tracking blackhole is so frustrating! Based on what I'm seeing in this thread, it sounds like there are actually several viable approaches: the FOIA request that @PixelWarrior mentioned sounds really promising for getting definitive confirmation, and I hadn't thought about involving my company's legal team either. One thing I learned from my tax attorney is that the IRS processing centers have been severely understaffed since COVID, especially for "non-revenue" forms like 83B elections. Apparently the Austin center (which handles a lot of international mail) has backlogs stretching 6+ months in some cases. For anyone in this boat - document EVERYTHING. Keep your certified mail receipt, take photos of what you mailed, and if possible get your company to provide written confirmation of when you received your stock grant. All of this becomes crucial evidence if you ever need to make a reasonable cause argument for late filing relief. The stress is real though - I keep having nightmares about owing massive taxes on phantom income if my election wasn't properly filed!

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I totally understand that nightmare feeling! I'm in a similar boat - filed my 83B from overseas and the uncertainty is killing me. The FOIA approach @PixelWarrior mentioned seems like the most reliable way to get a definitive answer without having to play phone tag with the IRS. I'm definitely going to try that route. One thing that's been bothering me - do you know if there's any penalty or negative consequence for filing a "protective" duplicate 83B election with an explanation letter? I've been wondering if that might be worth doing just to have something on record, even though it's technically past the 30-day window. Better safe than sorry with something this important for our future tax liability. Also curious if anyone knows whether the processing delays at places like Austin affect the validity of our elections. Like, if they received it timely but just haven't processed it yet, are we still protected?

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I've been through this exact nightmare with my 83B election filed from Singapore! The international mail tracking black hole is absolutely maddening, and the IRS phone system seems designed to drive people insane. Here's what finally worked for me: I combined several of the approaches mentioned here. First, I filed the FOIA request that @PixelWarrior suggested - that's brilliant advice and gave me peace of mind knowing there would be a definitive answer eventually. While waiting for that, I also had my company's legal team write a letter confirming my grant date and that I notified them of my intent to file within the 30-day window. The key breakthrough came when I used Claimyr to actually get through to an IRS agent. I was skeptical at first too, but after weeks of getting disconnected, it was worth trying. The agent was able to look up my filing and confirmed it was received and in processing - just stuck in their massive backlog. For what it's worth, the processing delays don't affect the validity of your election as long as it was received within the 30-day deadline. Your certified mail receipt from Deutsche Post should be solid proof of timely filing. Don't panic - this situation is way more common than you'd think, especially with international filings. The IRS is just incredibly slow with 83B elections since they don't generate revenue.

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Gabriel Ruiz

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This is exactly the kind of comprehensive approach I needed to see! I'm in a similar situation with my 83B filed from the UK, and the uncertainty has been eating at me for months. The combination strategy makes so much sense - filing the FOIA request for definitive confirmation while also getting company legal documentation as backup evidence. I'm definitely going to try both approaches. One quick question about the Claimyr service - when you got through to the IRS agent, were they able to give you any kind of reference number or documentation that your filing was received? I'm wondering if there's something tangible I can get from them beyond just verbal confirmation, especially since this could be important years down the line when I eventually sell my shares. Also really relieved to hear that processing delays don't invalidate the election itself. That's been my biggest worry - that somehow their internal delays could affect the legal validity of my filing.

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Mason Lopez

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20 Does anyone know if you can look up whether someone has a valid PTIN or EFIN? I'm now wondering about my own tax preparer and whether I should be checking their credentials before letting them file my taxes.

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Mason Lopez

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17 You can verify a tax preparer's PTIN through the IRS Directory of Federal Tax Return Preparers with Credentials and Select Qualifications on the IRS website. However, there isn't a public database to verify EFINs. At minimum, you should ensure your preparer signs your return and includes their PTIN (required by law). Also, legitimate preparers will have you sign Form 8879 (e-file authorization) before submitting your return electronically. If they don't do these things, that's a red flag.

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Mason Lopez

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20 Thanks for the info! I didn't know about the IRS directory. Just checked and my preparer is listed with valid credentials. Will definitely make sure they're having me sign the right forms this year.

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NebulaNova

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Based on what you've described, this situation raises several red flags. While it's technically possible to have a PTIN but be denied an EFIN, the reasons usually involve more than just criminal history. Common reasons for EFIN denial include: - Outstanding tax debts to the IRS - Previous violations of e-file regulations - Failing the suitability check (which includes credit history, tax compliance, and background verification) - Providing false information on the EFIN application - Association with previously sanctioned preparers What's particularly concerning is that using someone else's EFIN is a serious violation of IRS regulations. Each EFIN is tied to a specific business location and preparer. The niece is putting her own credentials at significant risk - if discovered, both she and the aunt could face penalties, EFIN revocation, and potential prohibition from the e-file program. If you're considering reporting this, you should know that the IRS takes credential sharing very seriously. This isn't just a technicality - it's a fundamental violation of tax preparer oversight designed to protect taxpayers.

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Paolo Rizzo

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This is really helpful - I had no idea about the suitability check being so comprehensive. The outstanding tax debts reason makes a lot of sense. If someone can't even keep their own taxes current, why would the IRS trust them to handle other people's returns electronically? I'm definitely leaning toward reporting this situation now. It sounds like both the aunt and niece could get in serious trouble, and taxpayers in our community deserve to know their returns are being handled properly. Do you happen to know if there's a specific form or process for reporting this kind of violation?

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Luca Romano

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Think of your tax return like a package moving through a shipping facility. Right now, your package (return) has been accepted and the contents (EIC) have been verified, but it hasn't been loaded onto the delivery truck (refund issued) yet. The 2/24/25 date is just the IRS's quirky way of dating things - it's actually referring to the current processing year. Most EIC returns are taking about 3-4 weeks total this season, so if you've only recently filed, just give it a bit more time before worrying.

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Anna Xian

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I went through this exact same situation last month! The EIC date showing up first is actually a good sign - it means they've verified your eligibility for the credit. From my experience, once you see that date, the 846 refund code typically appears within 10-14 days. I know it's frustrating when you're managing business cash flow, but try not to check your transcript daily (I know, easier said than done!). The system usually updates overnight on Fridays, so checking once a week saves you from the constant stress. Your refund is coming, just hang in there!

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This is exactly what I needed to hear! As a small business owner, I've been checking my transcript multiple times a day and driving myself crazy. The weekly check approach makes so much sense - I'll try to stick to Fridays only. It's reassuring to know that the EIC date appearing first is actually positive progress rather than something to worry about.

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Javier Gomez

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I went through this exact same situation two years ago and can confirm that you're not out of luck! The IRS does allow late filing of Form 3115 for 475(f) elections under certain circumstances. The key is that you made a good faith effort by filing the election statement with your return. You'll want to file Form 3115 with your 2024 return and include a detailed reasonable cause statement explaining why you missed the original deadline. Reference Revenue Procedure 2022-14 for automatic consent procedures. Make sure to emphasize that you properly made the election statement and are correcting the oversight as soon as you discovered it. The good news is that if accepted, you won't need to amend prior returns - the Form 3115 handles the accounting method change adjustments through Section 481(a). I'd recommend getting professional help to ensure everything is done correctly, but you definitely still have options to salvage your MTM election.

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This is really helpful to hear from someone who's actually been through this process! I'm curious about the Section 481(a) adjustment you mentioned - how complicated is that to calculate? I'm trying to figure out if this is something I can handle myself or if I really need to bite the bullet and hire a professional. My trading activity wasn't super complex last year, mostly just swing trading stocks, so I'm hoping the adjustment won't be too difficult to work out.

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Zara Mirza

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The Section 481(a) adjustment can actually be pretty straightforward if your trading wasn't too complex. Essentially, you're calculating the difference between what your taxable income would have been under your old accounting method versus the mark-to-market method for the year you're making the change. For swing trading stocks, you'd typically be looking at any unrealized gains/losses in your positions at year-end that would now be recognized under MTM treatment. If you had net unrealized losses, that could actually work in your favor as a negative adjustment (reducing your taxable income). The calculation gets more complex if you had positions that spanned multiple years or if you're switching from installment method reporting. Given that you're already dealing with a late Form 3115 filing, I'd honestly recommend getting professional help at least for this first year to make sure everything is calculated correctly. Once you see how it's done, future years become much more manageable. The cost of getting it wrong with the IRS could be much higher than the professional fees.

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I went through a very similar situation last year and want to reassure you that it's not hopeless! I made my 475(f) election with my 2022 return but completely missed the Form 3115 requirement. I didn't discover this until I was preparing my 2023 taxes. I ended up filing Form 3115 with my 2023 return under the automatic consent procedures in Rev. Proc. 2022-14. The key was including a comprehensive reasonable cause statement that explained I had made the election in good faith but was unaware of the additional Form 3115 requirement. I emphasized that I was correcting the oversight immediately upon discovery. The IRS accepted my late filing without any issues. The Section 481(a) adjustment wasn't as scary as I thought it would be - it actually worked in my favor since I had some unrealized losses that reduced my taxable income for that year. My advice: don't panic, but do act quickly. File the Form 3115 with your 2024 return, include a detailed reasonable cause statement, and reference the appropriate revenue procedure. If your trading situation is complex, consider getting professional help, but many people have successfully resolved this exact issue. The IRS is generally reasonable when you show good faith effort to comply.

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Omar Hassan

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This is exactly the kind of reassurance I needed to hear! I've been losing sleep over this situation thinking I completely ruined my trader status eligibility. Your experience gives me hope that the IRS will be reasonable about this oversight. Quick question - when you filed your Form 3115 late, did you have to pay any penalties or interest? And roughly how long did it take to get confirmation that they accepted your filing? I'm trying to plan for what to expect when I submit mine with my 2024 return. Also, did you handle the Section 481(a) adjustment calculation yourself or did you get professional help with that part? I'm still on the fence about whether to DIY this or hire someone, especially since money is tight right now after some trading losses this year.

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