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Dananyl Lear

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I'm dealing with a similar situation with my consulting LLC right now. One thing I learned from my tax attorney that might help - the IRS has a special "late election relief" procedure under Revenue Procedure 2013-30 that's separate from the regular reasonable cause provisions. This procedure allows you to make a late entity classification election if you meet certain requirements, including that you haven't filed a tax return for the year you want the election to be effective for, OR if you have filed, that you filed consistently with the requested election. The key advantage is that you don't have to prove "reasonable cause" - you just have to meet the procedural requirements. There's a $3,271 user fee, but if you qualify, it's often easier than trying to argue reasonable cause. Given your June-to-June fiscal year and $380k revenue, this might be worth exploring before going the reasonable cause route. The procedure has specific timing requirements though - generally you need to file within 3 years and 75 days of the requested effective date. Have you already filed your LLC tax return for the year you want to elect C corp status for? That could impact which approach makes more sense.

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This is really helpful information about Revenue Procedure 2013-30! I hadn't come across this in my research. The $3,271 fee seems steep, but if it's more straightforward than proving reasonable cause, it might be worth it given our revenue levels. We haven't filed our LLC return yet for the fiscal year that ended May 31st (we usually file closer to the extension deadline), so it sounds like we might qualify for this procedure. Do you know if there are any other specific requirements we'd need to meet? And would we still need to file Form 8832, or is there a different form for this relief procedure? I'm definitely going to bring this up with our accountant - this could be exactly what we need to avoid the whole reasonable cause headache. Thanks for sharing this!

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AstroAce

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You're absolutely right about Rev. Proc. 2013-30 being a potentially better route! Since you haven't filed your LLC return yet, you should definitely qualify for the late election relief procedure. For Rev. Proc. 2013-30, you'll still file Form 8832, but you need to write "FILED PURSUANT TO REV. PROC. 2013-30" at the top. The main requirements are: (1) you haven't filed a return for the tax year you want the election effective for, OR you filed consistently with the requested election, (2) the election is filed within 3 years and 75 days of the requested effective date, and (3) you pay the user fee. One important thing to double-check - make sure your requested effective date falls within the 3 years and 75 days window. If your fiscal year ended May 31st and you want the election effective from June 1st of that year, count forward to see if you're still within the timeframe. The procedure also requires you to include a statement that you're eligible for the relief and that you're requesting the election under Rev. Proc. 2013-30. Much cleaner than trying to prove reasonable cause, and the IRS processes these more routinely since it's a established procedure rather than a discretionary determination.

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Just wanted to add another perspective from someone who went through this process recently. I'm a CPA and helped several clients navigate retroactive entity elections over the past year. One thing that hasn't been fully emphasized in this thread - the choice between LLC, S corp, and C corp taxation isn't just about current year tax savings. You need to think about your long-term business strategy: - If you're planning to bring in outside investors eventually, C corp status makes that much easier - If you want to offer employee stock options down the road, C corp structure is typically preferred - But if you're planning to distribute most profits to owners, pass-through taxation (LLC or S corp) usually wins For your specific situation with $380k revenue growing to $500k, I'd strongly recommend modeling out at least 3 scenarios over a 5-year period before making the election. The "right" choice depends heavily on your distribution strategy and growth plans. Also, regarding the retroactive election - Rev. Proc. 2013-30 is definitely your best bet if you qualify. The reasonable cause route is much more unpredictable, and I've seen plenty of those get denied even with what seemed like solid justification. One last tip: if you do go the C corp route, make sure you understand the accumulated earnings tax implications if you retain too much profit without a business purpose. That can bite you later if you're not careful.

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Fidel Carson

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This is really valuable insight from a CPA perspective! As someone new to this community and just starting to understand these entity elections, I'm curious about the accumulated earnings tax you mentioned. Could you elaborate on what constitutes "too much profit" and what would be considered a valid business purpose for retaining earnings? Also, when you mention modeling scenarios over 5 years, are there specific software tools or templates that work well for this kind of analysis? I'm trying to educate myself on the right questions to ask when I eventually consult with a tax professional about my own small business. The long-term strategic considerations you raised (investors, stock options) are things I hadn't really thought about yet, but they seem crucial for making the right choice upfront rather than having to change course later.

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Make sure u request the extension BEFORE the deadline!!!! I messed this up last year thinking I could file the extension a few days late and got hit with late fees even tho my final return was filed in september. The extension itself has to be filed by tax day or ur screwed

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Yes! This! So many people don't realize the extension request itself has a deadline. File Form 4868 electronically and you'll get confirmation right away. Much safer than mailing it.

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Luca Russo

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Just wanted to add something important that I learned the hard way - when you're estimating your tax liability for the extension payment, make sure you account for self-employment tax if your K-1 shows you're actively involved in the business. Since you mentioned you're listed as a General Partner/LLC Member Manager, you might owe SE tax on your share of the profits, not just regular income tax. The SE tax is 15.3% on top of your regular income tax, so it can add up even on that $2,200. Last year I forgot about this part when estimating my extension payment and ended up owing penalties because I underpaid. Better to overestimate and get a refund than deal with underpayment penalties and interest! Also, definitely file that Form 4868 electronically like others mentioned - you'll get instant confirmation and it's much more reliable than mail during busy season.

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Zara Rashid

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OMG the offset system is wild! States can take $ for so many things: unpaid taxes (obv), child support, unemployment overpayments, student loans, court fees, toll violations, parking tickets, even unpaid utility bills in some states! And get this - some states share offset info w/ other states where you've lived. So your NY refund could be offset for a debt in CA. Crazy system that nobody explains to taxpayers until it's too late. SMH.

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I feel your pain! This happened to me last year and the waiting period was torture. Here's what worked for me: Most states have a "Treasury Offset" or "Debt Collection" section on their revenue department website where you can search by SSN. Also try logging into your state's main tax portal - sometimes there's an "Account Summary" or "Notice History" section that shows recent actions before the physical letter arrives. If your state participates in the Federal Treasury Offset Program, you can also call 1-800-304-3107 for the automated hotline that tells you which agency requested the offset. Don't give up - the information is out there, it's just buried in government bureaucracy! šŸ™„

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This is super helpful! I didn't know about that federal hotline number. Quick question - when you call 1-800-304-3107, do they tell you the exact amount that was offset or just which agency requested it? And does the automated system work 24/7 or only during business hours? Trying to figure out if I can get answers tonight or if I need to wait until tomorrow morning.

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Luca Ferrari

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State offset procedures are much more complicated than federal ones. In federal cases, the TOP system is centralized, but states often have fragmented systems spread across different departments. My state refund was offset for a university tuition balance from 10 years ago, while my cousin's was taken for unpaid tolls. If you compare this to how federal offsets work, states have much less transparency. You should also check if your state participates in the State Reciprocal Program, which allows them to collect debts you owe to OTHER states as well. I'm concerned this might become more common as states share more data with each other.

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I've been through a similar situation with my state refund and can share what worked for me. The key is understanding that each state has its own Treasury Offset Program (TOP) separate from the federal system. Here's what I learned: First, don't waste time with general customer service lines - they usually can't access offset information. Instead, look for your state's specific "Treasury Offset Program" or "Refund Offset" phone number on their revenue department website. It's usually buried in the FAQ section or under "Collections." Second, if you can't find a dedicated line, ask to be transferred to the "Collections" or "Debt Recovery" department when you call - they handle offsets and can tell you if anything is pending against your refund. Third, request a written statement of any potential offsets. Most states are required to provide this information, though they don't always volunteer it. Finally, don't assume it's just state debts - many states can offset for municipal debts, court fines, student loans, and even some federal debts depending on their agreements. I was shocked to learn my state could collect for unpaid library fines! The process is frustrating because unlike federal TOP, there's no central database you can check. Each state really does operate independently, which is why the advice varies so much. Good luck!

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Nick Kravitz

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This is incredibly thorough - thank you! I had no idea about the library fines possibility. That's actually concerning since I moved states a few years ago and never thought to check if I had any outstanding municipal debts from my previous city. Do you know if there's a way to proactively check for these types of smaller debts before they show up as offsets? It seems like it would be nearly impossible to track down every potential municipal creditor across different jurisdictions.

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Oliver Weber

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I've been dealing with these volatility ETF K-1 forms for a couple years now and wanted to add some perspective on the timing aspect that others haven't mentioned much. One thing to be prepared for - these K-1s often arrive really late in tax season, sometimes not until mid-March or even later. This can be frustrating if you're trying to file early. UVXY and SVIX partnerships seem to be particularly slow with their reporting, probably because they have complex underlying derivative positions that take time to sort out. For your current situation, you're handling it correctly - IRA positions don't need personal reporting, but taxable account K-1s should be included even with zeros. One tip that saved me time: if you use tax software, many programs now have specific modules for these common volatility ETF partnerships. They'll recognize the EIN and auto-populate most of the form fields, which makes entering those zero K-1s much faster. Also, since you mentioned this is your first time with these investments, be aware that if you hold these partnerships across multiple tax years, you might see prior year adjustments on future K-1s. These partnerships sometimes have to restate their numbers after getting final information from their own underlying investments, which can create amended K-1s or adjustments on the following year's forms. The good news is that for retail investors, these adjustments are usually tiny amounts that don't materially affect your tax liability, but it's good to be aware of the possibility.

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Juan Moreno

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This timing issue is something I wish I had known about earlier! I was planning to file my taxes in early February and had no idea these K-1s could arrive so late. That's really helpful information about the mid-March timeframe. The point about prior year adjustments and amended K-1s is also eye-opening. I hadn't considered that these partnerships might need to restate numbers from previous years. Even if the amounts are usually small, it sounds like something to keep in mind for future tax planning. Your suggestion about tax software having specific modules for these common volatility ETFs is great. I've been dreading the manual entry process, so knowing that many programs can auto-populate the forms makes this much less intimidating. Do you happen to know if this feature works well across most major tax software platforms, or are there particular ones that handle these partnership forms better than others? Also, given the late arrival timing you mentioned, would you recommend requesting an extension if some K-1s haven't arrived by the filing deadline, or is it generally safe to assume they'll show all zeros like most people are experiencing?

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Nia Jackson

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Great questions about the tax software! I've used both TurboTax and FreeTaxUSA for these partnership forms, and both handle the common volatility ETFs pretty well. TurboTax tends to be slightly more user-friendly - it recognizes EINs for UVXY, SVIX, and other popular volatility products and walks you through the process step by step. FreeTaxUSA works fine too but requires a bit more manual navigation. Regarding filing deadlines, I'd generally recommend requesting an extension if you're missing K-1s by April 15th, especially if you had significant positions. Even though these forms usually show zeros, you don't want to risk having to file an amended return later if something unexpected shows up. The automatic 6-month extension is free and gives you peace of mind. One strategy I've adopted is to contact the partnership directly (usually through their website or investor relations) in early March if I haven't received K-1s yet. Most will give you an estimated delivery date, which helps with planning whether you need an extension or not.

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CosmicVoyager

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I've been through this exact situation with volatility ETF K-1s and wanted to share a few key points that might help clarify things for you. You're absolutely right about the IRA distinction - those UVXY K-1s from your retirement account don't need to be reported on your personal tax return. The IRA custodian handles all partnership reporting internally, so you can set those aside. For your SVIX shares in the taxable account, even though everything shows zeros, you do need to include those K-1s on your return. The IRS matching system will flag missing partnership forms regardless of the amounts involved. One thing that caught me off guard my first year - make sure to scan through the entire K-1 form, not just the summary page. Sometimes there are small items buried in the detailed schedules that don't show up in the summary. I almost missed a tiny Section 199A deduction this way. For the K-3 forms, you're correct that they typically don't contain much for domestic volatility products. These are mainly for international tax reporting, so if your K-1s are all zeros, the K-3s usually will be too. A heads up for future planning - these K-1s often arrive very late in tax season (sometimes mid-March or later), which can delay your filing if you're trying to get taxes done early. Also, be prepared for potential prior year adjustments on future K-1s, though these are usually minimal amounts for retail investors. If you plan to continue trading these products, consider consolidating them in your IRA to avoid the annual K-1 paperwork entirely. Since they rarely generate meaningful taxable income anyway, you get the same economic exposure without the compliance headache.

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