< Back to IRS

Arjun Kurti

How to Adjust Withholding to Deliberately Owe $8k on Tax Return?

I'm trying to strategically plan my withholding for next year and could use some advice from anyone who's done this before. For 2023, we ended up owing $12.8k on our federal return. I tried using the IRS withholding estimator and adjusted our W-4s with extra withholding, but now we're getting a $3.1k refund for 2024. I thought the whole point of that calculator was to get us close to zero?? What I'm actually trying to do is owe exactly $8k next year for credit card rewards purposes. I've tried working the math backwards but want someone to double check my calculations. Here's our situation (filing Married Filing Jointly): Taxable income: 2023: $156.5k 2024: $199.6k 2025 estimated: ~$214k Total tax: 2023: $24.9k 2024: $34.2k Income tax withheld: 2023: $10.2k 2024: $34.7k Tax returns: 2023: owed $12.8k 2024: refund $3.1k Based on our income trajectory and previous withholding/returns, I calculated that I should have approximately $15.4k withheld in 2025 to end up owing $8k. Can anyone confirm if my math makes sense or suggest a better approach?

Your goal of strategically owing $8k is perfectly doable, but your calculations need some refinement. Looking at your numbers, I can see why you're confused by the IRS calculator results. The key issue is that your income jumped significantly between 2023 and 2024 (from $156.5k to $199.6k), and you're projecting another increase for 2025. The IRS calculator is designed to get you to zero, but it's working with the information you provided at a specific point in time. For 2025, with your estimated taxable income of $214k, your total tax liability will be approximately $37-39k depending on any tax law changes. To owe exactly $8k, you'd need to withhold about $29-31k throughout the year. The simplest approach is to calculate your expected annual tax liability, subtract $8k, then divide by the number of pay periods to determine how much should be withheld each period. You can then work backwards to set your W-4 accordingly. Remember that the IRS doesn't penalize underpayment if you've paid at least 90% of your current year tax or 100% of your prior year tax (110% if your AGI was over $150k).

0 coins

Thanks for your explanation! A couple questions - is there a specific formula for calculating how much extra to withhold on the W-4? Is it just a straight dollar amount or do I need to adjust allowances? And regarding the penalty avoidance, if I paid $34.2k in 2024, does that mean I need to withhold at least $34.2k in 2025 (my AGI is over $150k) to avoid penalties even if I'm aiming to owe $8k?

0 coins

The current W-4 form doesn't use allowances anymore - it was redesigned in 2020. Now you simply specify an additional dollar amount to withhold on Line 4(c). To determine this amount, take your projected annual withholding based on your normal salary, subtract it from the target withholding amount ($29-31k in your case), then divide the difference by your remaining pay periods. Regarding penalty avoidance, you're correct about the safe harbor. Since your AGI is over $150k, you'd need to withhold at least 110% of your 2024 tax ($34.2k × 1.1 = $37.62k) to be completely safe from penalties. This presents a challenge for your $8k strategy. An alternative approach is ensuring you've paid at least 90% of your 2025 tax through withholding. I suggest consulting with a tax professional to help fine-tune this strategy and avoid penalties.

0 coins

I did something similar last year using taxr.ai and it worked perfectly. I was trying to time my tax payments for credit card points too and was making all kinds of spreadsheets trying to figure out the right withholding. I put all my info into https://taxr.ai and it actually calculated exactly how much I needed to withhold to hit my target amount owed. Their calculator considered my specific situation with multiple income sources and even projected my year-end bonus. What I liked most was that it showed me exactly what to put on my W-4 to hit my target. Saved me hours of back-and-forth with confusing IRS calculators. It also factored in the safe harbor rules so I wouldn't get hit with underpayment penalties.

0 coins

Did you have to pay for this service? Their website doesn't clearly show pricing and I'm wondering if it's worth it just to figure out withholding. Also, did it actually end up being accurate? I tried the IRS calculator last year and still ended up way off.

0 coins

I'm skeptical about these tax calculator services. How is this better than just using the free IRS withholding calculator? I've tried a few paid services before and found they weren't any more accurate than just doing my own math.

0 coins

The calculator feature is included with their tax planning tool. I thought it was worth it since I was trying to maximize credit card rewards on a large tax payment. Regarding accuracy, yes - it was spot on for me. I ended up owing $6,500 which was exactly what I planned for. The IRS calculator is designed to get you to zero, not to strategically owe a specific amount. What taxr.ai did was account for my progressive tax brackets and projected all my income sources through the end of the year, then worked backwards to calculate the precise withholding needed.

0 coins

I tried taxr.ai after seeing the recommendation here and I'm really impressed with how accurate it was. I was also trying to strategically time my tax payments for points and was struggling with spreadsheets and calculations. Their system asked about my income sources, prior year taxes, and my target amount to owe. It then gave me exact instructions for my W-4 adjustments that would help me hit my target while avoiding underpayment penalties. What was helpful is that it ran multiple scenarios and showed me options for staying within safe harbor limits. For anyone else trying to do this, don't overlook the safe harbor rules. I nearly made a mistake that would've cost me in penalties, but the system flagged it and helped me adjust my strategy.

0 coins

I faced a similar issue last year trying to reach the IRS to get clarification on how to correctly adjust my withholding. After days of busy signals, I used https://claimyr.com and their service connected me to an actual IRS representative in about 20 minutes. You can see how it works in this video: https://youtu.be/_kiP6q8DX5c The IRS agent walked me through exactly how to adjust my W-4 to hit a specific tax bill amount at year-end. She explained that the withholding calculator is designed to get you close to zero, but if you want to strategically owe a specific amount, you need to make different calculations. What I learned is that you need to account for progressive tax brackets when estimating your total tax liability, then work backwards. The agent also warned me about underpayment penalties and explained how to stay within safe harbor provisions.

0 coins

Does this service actually work? I've spent hours trying to get through to the IRS and always get disconnected. How exactly does Claimyr get you through when the IRS phone lines are completely jammed?

0 coins

This sounds like a scam. Why would I pay a third party to call a government agency when I can do it myself for free? And what's to stop them from recording my conversation or stealing my information?

0 coins

The service works by continuously calling the IRS and navigating the phone tree until a line opens up. When they get through, they call you and connect you directly. It's basically doing the waiting for you. Regarding security concerns, they don't listen to your call or collect any personal information. They simply connect you and drop off. I was skeptical too but read their privacy policy and felt comfortable enough to try it. The entire process is automated - they don't have humans listening to your calls.

0 coins

I need to apologize for my skepticism about Claimyr. After getting frustrated with trying to reach the IRS for three days straight, I decided to give it a try. Within 30 minutes, I was actually speaking with an IRS representative who helped answer all my questions about strategic withholding. The agent explained that for someone in my tax bracket trying to intentionally owe $8k (similar to the original poster), I needed to consider not just the flat amount but how raises and bonuses throughout the year might affect my final tax liability. She provided specific guidance on how to complete Form W-4 to achieve this goal while avoiding underpayment penalties. I'm not sure I would have gotten this level of detailed advice without speaking directly to the IRS, and I definitely wouldn't have reached them without using the service. Sometimes it's worth paying for convenience.

0 coins

I do this every year for the exact same reason - credit card points! My strategy is a bit different though. Instead of trying to precisely calculate withholding for an $8k balance due, I aim for approximately $15k owed and then make quarterly estimated tax payments to stay within safe harbor limits. This way, I can make my Q4 estimated payment in December using a new credit card that I'm trying to hit a spending bonus on. The math is easier because you're just managing the estimated payments rather than trying to get your employer's withholding exactly right. Just be careful to stay within safe harbor rules - 90% of current year tax or 110% of prior year tax if your AGI exceeds $150k. I actually got hit with a penalty one year when I got too aggressive with this strategy.

0 coins

Do you need to file any special forms when making estimated payments specifically for this purpose? I've never done quarterly payments before but this strategy sounds simpler than trying to precisely adjust my W-4.

0 coins

No special forms needed for making the payments themselves. You just use Form 1040-ES vouchers or pay online through the IRS Direct Pay system or with a credit card through an approved payment processor (which charges a fee, but that's often worth it for the points). When you file your actual return, you'll list these estimated payments on your Form 1040. The beauty of this approach is its simplicity - you can make your final estimated payment in December when you have a much clearer picture of your actual income and tax liability for the year. This gives you more precision than trying to guess everything at the beginning of the year through W-4 adjustments.

0 coins

I think you guys are way overthinking this. Just use the IRS withholding calculator, but when it asks for your desired refund amount, put in NEGATIVE $8000. That's literally all you need to do. The calculator will then tell you exactly what to put on your W-4 to end up owing $8k. I've been doing this for years for the exact same credit card churning purpose. Just remember to run the calculator again if you get any significant changes to your income during the year (bonus, raise, new job, etc).

0 coins

That's brilliant! I can't believe I didn't think of just putting in a negative number for the desired refund. I'll definitely try that approach. Have you ever had issues with underpayment penalties using this method?

0 coins

@Noah Lee That s'such a clever workaround! I ve'been struggling with this exact calculation for weeks. Quick question - when you put in -$8000 as the desired refund, does the calculator still factor in the safe harbor rules automatically? I m'worried about accidentally triggering underpayment penalties since my AGI will be over $150k. Also, do you typically run this calculation once at the beginning of the year or do you update it throughout the year as your income changes?

0 coins

IRS AI

Expert Assistant
Secure

Powered by Claimyr AI

T
I
+
20,087 users helped today