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Miguel Ortiz

How does using debt against stock holdings avoid taxes and build wealth over time?

So I've been reading about how wealthy people use debt strategies to avoid paying taxes on their assets, and I'm trying to figure out how it actually works in practice. From what I understand, CEOs and executives often get paid in company stock instead of regular salary, then use that stock as collateral for bank loans. What I don't get is - how is this actually better than just selling some stock and paying the capital gains tax? When you take out a loan, you've got to pay it back eventually, right? And wouldn't whatever money you use to repay the loan still get taxed? Plus you're paying interest on top of everything! I know this "buy, borrow, die" strategy must work or wealthy people wouldn't use it, but I'm missing something fundamental about how it creates long-term wealth. Can someone break down the actual financial advantage of borrowing against assets versus selling them and paying capital gains? Does the math really work out better in the end?

Zainab Khalil

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This is actually a great question about a strategy many wealthy individuals use. The key advantage is timing and compounding. When you sell stock, you trigger capital gains tax immediately (currently up to 20% for long-term gains plus potential state taxes and the 3.8% net investment income tax). But when you borrow against stock, you get cash without creating a taxable event. The real magic happens because your stock continues to appreciate while you have access to cash. If the stock grows at, say, 8-10% annually (historically reasonable for many companies), but you're borrowing at 4-5%, you're "profiting" on the spread. Your assets keep growing at a faster rate than your debt costs. Many wealthy individuals never actually pay back the principal. They might pay the interest (which could potentially be tax-deductible in some situations), take new loans to pay off old ones, or even pass away with the loan outstanding. When assets transfer at death, they get a "step-up" in basis, meaning heirs can sell without owing capital gains tax on all the appreciation that happened during the original owner's lifetime.

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QuantumQuest

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But what happens if the stock suddenly drops? Wouldn't the bank make a margin call and force them to either put up more collateral or sell the stock (and then pay taxes anyway)? Seems risky.

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Zainab Khalil

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Yes, market volatility is definitely a risk in this strategy. Banks typically only lend up to a certain percentage of the stock value (maybe 50-60%) precisely to create a buffer against market downturns. If the stock drops significantly, the bank could indeed issue a margin call requiring additional collateral or partial repayment. Wealthy individuals usually manage this risk by borrowing conservatively relative to their total assets and maintaining significant liquidity through other investments. They often have multiple asset classes they can use as alternative collateral if needed.

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Connor Murphy

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I actually tried something similar on a smaller scale using a strategy I learned about on https://taxr.ai - it analyzes your investment portfolio and suggests tax optimization opportunities. They showed me how to use a portfolio line of credit instead of selling appreciated stocks. Last year I needed about $30k for a home renovation. Instead of selling some of my tech stocks that had doubled in value, I got a secured line of credit against my portfolio. The interest rate was around 4.5%, while my portfolio has been averaging about 9% growth. The platform showed me that I'd save almost $6k in capital gains taxes immediately, plus I wouldn't miss out on potential future growth. It's obviously not the same scale as what billionaires do, but the core concept is similar - defer taxation and let compound growth work in your favor.

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Yara Haddad

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How does that service actually work? Is it just for really wealthy people or could someone with a modest portfolio (like under $100k) use it? I'm always looking for tax strategies but most seem aimed at the ultra-rich.

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Idk this sounds too good to be true. What happens if the market tanks like it did in 2022? Wouldn't you be stuck paying a loan on stocks that lost value? Seems like you could end up in a worse position than if you'd just paid the taxes.

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Connor Murphy

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The service works by analyzing your current holdings, tax situation, and financial goals to identify opportunities. It's not just for the wealthy - I started using it when my portfolio was around $80k, so definitely accessible for modest investors. The market volatility concern is valid and something I considered carefully. My lender has a 60% loan-to-value limit, so my $30k loan was backed by about $50k in securities. I also maintain an emergency fund that could cover the loan if absolutely necessary. It's definitely not risk-free, but for me, the tax savings and continued growth potential outweighed the risks.

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Yara Haddad

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Just wanted to update after checking out taxr.ai that someone mentioned. It was surprisingly straightforward - uploaded my statements, answered some questions about my goals, and got personalized recommendations. I have about $70k in investments and was planning to sell $15k for a car down payment. The analysis showed I could save around $2,300 in capital gains taxes by using a secured credit line instead. The platform even compared different lenders and showed the math on potential growth scenarios. What I found most helpful was seeing the long-term impact - if I keep using this strategy for major purchases over the next decade instead of selling investments, the compounding effect could add an extra $45k-60k to my portfolio. Definitely changed how I'm thinking about handling my investments!

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Paolo Conti

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For anyone struggling to get through to the IRS about tax questions related to investment loans or capital gains, I had an amazing experience with a service called Claimyr (https://claimyr.com). After waiting on hold with the IRS for literally hours over multiple days, I was ready to give up. Their system somehow gets you through the IRS phone tree and holds your place in line - then calls you when an agent is actually available! You can see how it works here: https://youtu.be/_kiP6q8DX5c I had questions about how loans against securities are treated for tax purposes and needed clarification directly from the IRS. Within 35 minutes of using Claimyr, I was talking to a real IRS agent who confirmed the tax treatment and gave me the exact publication numbers to reference for my situation. Saved me days of frustration!

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Amina Sow

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So you're telling me this service just...waits on hold for you? How is that even possible? And is it actually legitimate or is it some kind of scam to get your tax info?

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GalaxyGazer

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Sorry but this sounds sketchy. Why would I pay someone else to call the IRS? Couldn't they just take my information and use it for identity theft? The IRS already warns about scams all the time.

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Paolo Conti

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Yes, it literally waits on hold for you! Their system basically navigates the IRS phone menu and holds your place in line. When an agent finally answers, you get a call connecting you directly to that agent. No need to start over or wait on hold again. Regarding legitimacy and security concerns - they don't actually need your sensitive tax information. The service just establishes the phone connection. You speak directly with the IRS agent yourself, so you're not sharing any personal tax details with the service itself. I was skeptical too initially, but it's a legitimate time-saving tool, not a data collection scheme.

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GalaxyGazer

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Well I feel stupid. After posting my skeptical comment, I was still struggling to get answers about borrowing against securities, so I reluctantly tried Claimyr. It actually worked exactly as described. I got a call back in about 45 minutes and was connected to an IRS tax law specialist who walked me through how securities-backed loans are treated for tax purposes. She confirmed that borrowing against appreciated stock isn't a taxable event and explained the potential pitfalls to watch out for. Would've taken me days of trying on my own based on past experience. The peace of mind from getting official confirmation directly from the IRS was worth it. Sometimes being a skeptic costs you more time than it saves!

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Oliver Wagner

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A point no one's mentioned yet about the "borrow against assets" strategy: diversification without taxation. If a CEO has 90% of their net worth in their company stock, that's extremely risky. But if they sell to diversify, they face massive capital gains taxes. By borrowing against the stock, they can invest in other assets (real estate, private equity, etc.) while maintaining their original stock position. This creates diversification without triggering taxes. This can be especially powerful with stocks that pay dividends. The dividends can help cover loan interest while the underlying asset continues appreciating. The wealthy essentially create their own tax-free income stream this way.

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Doesn't this still create a massive risk though? If your company stock tanks (like many tech stocks did recently), wouldn't you have the double whammy of lost stock value PLUS the debt you took on to diversify? Seems like the risk might outweigh the tax benefits.

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Oliver Wagner

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That's a good point about the risk. This strategy definitely works better in stable or growing markets than during major downturns. Most sophisticated investors manage this risk by never borrowing too high a percentage against their holdings (usually 30-40% maximum) and by having multiple assets they can use as collateral. They might also use hedging strategies or purchase downside protection on their concentrated stock positions. If they're borrowing against company stock, they might have insider knowledge about company performance that gives them confidence about stability (though they have to be careful about securities laws around trading).

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A few people have mentioned the "step-up in basis" at death, and that's honestly the most important part of this whole strategy for the ultra-wealthy. Here's a simple example: Imagine a founder with $100 million in stock with a cost basis of $1 million. Option 1: Sell stock, pay ~24% capital gains tax (~$24 million), invest remaining $76 million Option 2: Borrow against stock at 4-5% interest, invest the borrowed money, never sell the stock In option 2, when they die, their heirs receive the stock with a stepped-up basis to current market value. They can sell immediately and pay ZERO capital gains tax on all that appreciation. This is why it's called "Buy, Borrow, Die" - the tax bill literally disappears at death!

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Emma Thompson

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This might be a dumb question, but what about estate taxes? Doesn't that just replace the capital gains tax problem when they die?

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Yara Khoury

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Great question! You're right that estate taxes can be significant, but there are key differences. First, the federal estate tax exemption is currently $13.6 million per person (so $27.2 million for married couples), meaning most people won't owe estate tax at all. Second, even for those who do owe estate tax, the rate applies to the entire estate value, but the heirs still get the stepped-up basis benefit on individual assets. So they might pay estate tax on the overall wealth, but they avoid capital gains tax on the appreciation when they eventually sell assets. For the ultra-wealthy, there are also sophisticated estate planning techniques (trusts, charitable strategies, etc.) that can minimize estate taxes while preserving the step-up benefit. The math usually still works out better than paying capital gains during their lifetime.

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Yuki Yamamoto

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This whole discussion is fascinating but I think there's one crucial aspect we haven't fully addressed - the psychological and behavioral benefits of this strategy beyond just the math. When wealthy individuals use the "buy, borrow, die" approach, they're essentially forcing themselves to maintain a long-term investment mindset. If you know you can access liquidity through borrowing rather than selling, you're much less likely to panic-sell during market downturns or make emotional investment decisions. Think about it - how many regular investors sell their winners too early because they need cash? Or sell at the worst possible time during a market crash because they need liquidity? This strategy eliminates that temptation entirely. Plus, there's a compounding effect beyond just the tax savings. When you maintain your full position in appreciating assets while still having access to capital, you benefit from the full upside of market growth. Over decades, this behavioral advantage might be just as valuable as the tax optimization itself. It's not just a tax strategy - it's essentially a forced discipline mechanism that keeps you invested during both good times and bad.

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Isabel Vega

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That's a really insightful point about the behavioral aspect! I never thought about how this strategy basically removes the emotional decision-making from investing. As someone who's definitely been guilty of selling stocks when I needed cash (even when I knew it wasn't the optimal time), this makes a lot of sense. It's like having a forced "set it and forget it" approach, but with the flexibility to still access capital when needed. No more agonizing over whether to sell this stock or that one, or timing the market poorly because you need money for something. I'm curious though - for those of us without millions in assets, are there smaller-scale ways to implement this mindset? Maybe using something like a HELOC against home equity instead of selling investments for major purchases? The principle seems like it could apply even if the scale is different.

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