< Back to IRS

Diego Fisher

FOREIGN OWNED LLC - FORM 5472 PENALTY ISSUES & OPTIONS

So my Argentinian buddy owns an LLC here in the States and he's in a tight spot. He missed filing Form 5472 and 1120 for the last 2 years (2022-2023). He's completely freaking out about potentially owing $25,000 in penalties PER YEAR, and that's not even counting the interest that's probably accruing. The situation is even more complicated because he's been traveling constantly these past few years and hasn't checked his US mailbox in forever. So he has no clue if the IRS has already sent him penalty notices or not. I've got two questions I'm hoping someone here can help with: 1. Is there any way for him to check if there are penalties already assessed against his LLC without having to physically check his mail? 2. Let's say worst case scenario - he finds out he does owe these penalties. Since he's Argentinian and lives primarily outside the US now, what realistically happens if he just... doesn't pay? I know that sounds bad but he's genuinely considering just walking away since the amount could be over $50K at this point. Thanks for any insights. He's seriously stressed and I'm trying to help him figure out his options.

The penalties for failing to file Form 5472 are indeed steep - $25,000 per form per year is the standard penalty. This is something the IRS takes very seriously for foreign-owned LLCs. Your friend has a few options to check for penalties without checking physical mail. He can request an account transcript from the IRS which will show any assessments, penalties, or notices. This can be done online through the IRS website if he creates an account, or by filing Form 4506-T. He can also call the IRS international taxpayer service at 267-941-1000, though wait times can be long. As for ignoring the penalties - while the IRS has limited collection options for foreign nationals living outside the US, there are significant downsides. The IRS can file liens against any US assets owned by the LLC or him personally. Any future US income would be subject to collection. Perhaps most importantly, unpaid tax debts can affect immigration status and ability to enter the US in the future. The better approach would be to get into compliance now through voluntary disclosure programs. The IRS often has options to abate or reduce penalties for taxpayers who come forward voluntarily.

0 coins

How exactly would voluntary disclosure work in this case? Would his friend still likely face some penalties or could they potentially be completely waived? I'm curious because I have a similar situation with my Canadian business partner.

0 coins

Voluntary disclosure typically involves filing the missing returns and forms along with a reasonable cause statement explaining why they weren't filed on time. The statement should detail why the failure occurred and the steps being taken to ensure compliance going forward. For penalties of this magnitude, it's best to work with a tax professional who specializes in international tax issues. They can help craft a compelling reasonable cause statement and may be able to get most or all of the penalties abated, especially for first-time offenders. The IRS does have discretion in these matters, and showing a good faith effort to comply now can significantly improve outcomes.

0 coins

After dealing with a nearly identical situation last year, I discovered taxr.ai (https://taxr.ai) and it was a game-changer. My Mexican business partner had completely missed filing 5472s for our joint LLC for several years, and we were looking at potentially $75k in penalties. The site analyzed all our business documents and quickly identified exactly what forms we were missing and what our exposure was. The best part was it helped draft a reasonable cause letter that explained our situation. We were able to get about 80% of the penalties waived because we voluntarily came forward with a proper explanation before the IRS contacted us. Their system specifically has expertise with foreign-owned LLC compliance issues and Form 5472 requirements. Definitely worth checking out before your friend makes any decisions.

0 coins

Wait how does this actually work? Do they contact the IRS on your behalf or do they just give you the information and you have to do the outreach yourself? I'm dealing with a UK investor in my LLC who might be in a similar situation.

0 coins

Sounds suspiciously convenient. So they just magically got 80% of penalties waived? The IRS isn't exactly known for being that forgiving with foreign reporting requirements. Did you end up having to pay them a lot for this service?

0 coins

The service analyzes your specific documents and situation then creates a customized compliance plan. They don't directly contact the IRS - instead they provide you with everything you need to either handle it yourself or give to your accountant. The IRS does have discretion to abate penalties for reasonable cause, especially when you voluntarily come forward. I think what helped in our case was the very specific documentation of why we missed the filing deadlines and our plan to stay compliant going forward. It was definitely not a guarantee, but in our case it worked out better than we expected.

0 coins

I was extremely skeptical when I first read about taxr.ai here, but my situation with my foreign-owned LLC was getting desperate. I had missed filing Form 5472 for two years and was looking at potentially $50k in penalties. I tried the service and was surprised by how thorough their analysis was. They identified exactly which reporting requirements I had missed and helped me put together a disclosure package with a detailed reasonable cause statement. I submitted everything to the IRS about 6 months ago, and just got the determination letter last week - they reduced the penalties to $5,000 total instead of the $50k I was potentially facing. The relief is incredible. Their documentation recommendations were spot-on for Form 5472 issues.

0 coins

If your friend has been trying to call the IRS international line, he's probably discovered it's nearly impossible to get through. After trying for weeks with my own 5472 filing issue, I found Claimyr (https://claimyr.com) - you can see how it works here: https://youtu.be/_kiP6q8DX5c It basically holds your place in the IRS phone queue and calls you when an actual agent is on the line. I was able to speak with someone who pulled up my LLC's account and confirmed exactly what penalties had been assessed so far. This was crucial because the notices had been sent to my old address. Getting actual confirmation directly from an IRS agent about what was in their system gave me a much better idea of what I was dealing with, instead of just assuming worst-case scenarios. It saved me weeks of anxiety wondering what might or might not have been assessed.

0 coins

How does this even work? The IRS phone system is notoriously terrible. Do they just call repeatedly until they get through?

0 coins

This sounds like BS honestly. I've been calling the IRS international line for MONTHS about my 5472 penalties. No way some service can magically get through when millions of people can't. And if they could, the IRS would shut that down immediately.

0 coins

They use an automated system that basically holds your place in line until a human IRS agent answers. When that happens, it connects the call to your phone. It's completely legitimate - they're just using technology to avoid you having to sit on hold for hours. It's not bypassing the IRS queue or doing anything improper - just automating the hold process. Plenty of governmental agencies are aware these services exist and haven't shut them down because they're just holding a place in the existing queue, not cutting in line or anything shady.

0 coins

I hate to admit I was wrong, but I tried Claimyr after my skeptical comment, and it actually worked! After struggling for months to reach someone at the IRS about my foreign-owned LLC and Form 5472 penalties, I was connected to an agent within a day. The agent confirmed I had $25,000 in penalties assessed already but hadn't received additional notices because they were going to my old address. I was able to update my address, get copies of all notices, and start working on a reasonable cause statement right away. Having concrete information instead of just worrying about worst-case scenarios made a huge difference in my stress levels. And the agent actually gave me specific information about what they look for in reasonable cause statements for Form 5472 penalties, which was invaluable. Never thought I'd say this, but it was worth every penny to actually speak to a human at the IRS.

0 coins

Your friend should consider the Streamlined Foreign Offshore Procedures if he hasn't been filing his personal tax returns either. For the business, filing delinquent international information returns might be an option. One thing people often miss is that even if the LLC didn't have activity, Form 5472 is still required for reportable transactions, which can include even small things like paying the LLC state filing fees. The penalties are purposefully harsh to encourage compliance. The 5472 penalties are just the beginning - does your friend also have FBAR requirements or personal filing requirements? If he's been completely off the US tax grid, he needs to get comprehensive advice before just addressing the LLC issue.

0 coins

Thanks for bringing this up. I'm not actually sure about his personal tax situation. I know he has a US bank account for the LLC, but I don't think he has personal accounts with over $10k. Would the LLC trigger FBAR requirements for him personally?

0 coins

If he has signature authority over the LLC's bank accounts that exceeded $10,000 at any point during the calendar year, then yes, he would have FBAR filing requirements personally, even if the accounts are business accounts. This is why it's important to look at the complete picture. Many foreign owners of US LLCs don't realize they have multiple filing requirements that interconnect. The Form 5472 penalties are severe, but missing FBAR filings can also carry significant penalties. He should really get professional advice that covers all aspects of his US tax exposure, not just the LLC issues.

0 coins

Your friend may have a "reasonable cause" defense if he genuinely didn't know about these filing requirements. The IRS can sometimes waive penalties if you can demonstrate you acted in good faith and the failure wasn't due to willful neglect. My company's minority foreign investor was in a similar situation. We filed the late forms with a detailed letter explaining why we missed the deadlines. Documented things like language barriers, lack of awareness of US tax requirements, etc. We ended up getting about half the penalties waived. The key is to move quickly and proactively now rather than waiting to be contacted by the IRS. It's much harder to claim reasonable cause if they contact you first about the missing filings.

0 coins

Would the IRS actually accept "I didn't know" as a valid excuse though? I've always heard ignorance of the law isn't a defense.

0 coins

Your friend needs to act fast - the longer he waits, the worse this gets. I've seen similar cases where foreign LLC owners thought they could just ignore US tax obligations, and it rarely ends well. First, he absolutely needs to find out his current status. The IRS transcript request is the fastest way - he can get it online or by fax. If penalties have already been assessed, interest is accruing daily at around 8% annually. Regarding just walking away - this is a terrible idea. Even if he's not planning to return to the US, the IRS has increasing cooperation with foreign tax authorities. Argentina has tax information exchange agreements with the US. Plus, if he ever wants to do business with US entities again or travel here, unpaid tax debts will follow him. The smart move is voluntary disclosure with a reasonable cause statement. For a first-time filer who genuinely didn't understand the requirements, there's a good chance of getting significant penalty relief. But he needs professional help - this isn't a DIY situation given the amounts involved. Don't let him panic into making a decision he'll regret for decades. The IRS would rather have someone in compliance than chase uncollectable debt overseas.

0 coins

This is excellent advice. I've been following this thread because I'm dealing with a similar situation with my German business partner's LLC. The key point about Argentina having tax information exchange agreements with the US is something people often overlook - it's not like he can just disappear into the void. @52aa668d89da You mentioned voluntary disclosure with reasonable cause - do you know if there's a specific timeframe where this approach works best? Like, is there a point where waiting too long makes the IRS less likely to accept reasonable cause arguments? Also, for anyone else reading this - the daily interest accrual point is crucial. Even if you think you can negotiate the penalties down, that interest keeps building while you're figuring things out.

0 coins

I went through something very similar with my French business partner's LLC last year. The $25k per year penalties are no joke, but there are definitely options before considering just walking away. For checking penalty status without physical mail access, your friend should immediately request IRS transcripts online at irs.gov. He'll need to verify his identity, but this will show exactly what's been assessed against the LLC. The transcript will include any penalties, notices, and payment history. Regarding just not paying - this is really risky even for foreign nationals. The IRS has been getting much more aggressive about international collections, especially with LLCs that have US bank accounts or assets. They can freeze those accounts, file liens, and as others mentioned, tax treaties mean this could follow him internationally. The better path is definitely voluntary disclosure with a strong reasonable cause statement. I've seen cases where penalties were reduced by 70-90% when the taxpayer came forward proactively. Key factors that helped: demonstrating good faith effort to comply, showing it was due to unfamiliarity with US tax law rather than willful neglect, and having a clear plan for future compliance. He should also consider whether the LLC actually had reportable transactions - sometimes the penalties can be challenged if there were truly no reportable events, though this is fact-specific. Get professional help ASAP - the interest meter is running and early action makes all the difference in penalty abatement requests.

0 coins

This is really helpful perspective from someone who's actually been through it. The 70-90% penalty reduction you mentioned gives me hope for similar situations. One question - when you say "reportable transactions," are you referring specifically to transactions between the foreign owner and the LLC, or does this include things like the LLC paying regular business expenses? I'm trying to understand if having minimal business activity might actually help reduce the penalty exposure in some cases. Also, did your French partner end up needing to file amended personal returns as well, or was this purely a business-level issue? Trying to get a sense of how complex this gets beyond just the Form 5472.

0 coins

IRS AI

Expert Assistant
Secure

Powered by Claimyr AI

T
I
+
20,095 users helped today