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Just want to add a real-world data point. I run an S-Corp and tried skipping salary for 2 years while reinvesting everything. Got audited and ended up owing back payroll taxes, penalties, and interest on what the IRS determined a "reasonable salary" would have been. They basically looked at what similar professionals in my field made and said I should have been paying myself (and paying payroll taxes on) at least that amount. The audit was triggered because I was actively involved (filed as full-time on my corporate docs) but had zero W-2 wages. They said this was an immediate red flag. Cost me way more in the end than if I'd just taken a salary from the beginning.
omg this is exactly what im afraid of. did u have any way to challenge what they said was "reasonable"? like what if their number was way too high compared to what ur business could afford?
You can challenge their determination, but you need solid documentation to back it up. I tried arguing that my business couldn't afford the salary they calculated, but they said that's not their concern - if I'm working full-time in the business, I need to be paid like any other employee would be. What hurt my case was that I had no documentation showing I tried to determine a reasonable salary or any business justification for taking zero compensation. If you're in this situation now, start documenting everything - your hours worked, comparable salaries in your area/industry, and your business's financial constraints. Having that paper trail makes a huge difference if you get audited. The IRS does consider the company's ability to pay, but only to some extent. They won't let you pay zero just because you want to reinvest profits.
I'm dealing with this exact same situation right now as a new S-Corp owner! Reading through all these responses has been super helpful, especially the real audit experience from Daniel. It sounds like the consensus is pretty clear - if you're actively working in the business, you need to pay yourself a reasonable salary regardless of distributions. What I'm taking away is that I need to start documenting everything now: my hours worked, what comparable positions pay in my industry/area, and my business financial situation. Even if I can't afford a full market-rate salary right now during my growth phase, having that documentation seems crucial for justifying whatever salary I do set. Has anyone found good resources for researching what "reasonable compensation" actually means for their specific role and industry? I'm trying to figure out if there are standard databases or surveys that the IRS typically references during audits.
For researching reasonable compensation, I've found a few reliable sources that the IRS tends to reference. The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) Occupational Employment and Wage Statistics is a good starting point - it's free and breaks down salaries by occupation and geographic area. PayScale, Glassdoor, and Salary.com can also provide industry-specific data, though you want to focus on the more comprehensive reports rather than just user-submitted data. The IRS also looks at what's called the "five-factor test" when determining reasonable compensation: 1) training and experience, 2) duties and responsibilities, 3) time and effort devoted to the business, 4) dividend history, and 5) payments to non-shareholder employees. Documenting how you measure up on each of these factors can really strengthen your position. One tip from my experience - don't just look at job titles, but actually match the duties you perform. If you're doing CEO work but also handling marketing and operations, you might justify a higher salary than just a standard "small business owner" rate. The key is being able to defend your reasoning with solid data.
I've been following this discussion and wanted to share something that might help others in similar situations. While we can't change the tax deductibility issues right now, there are a few practical things you can do to minimize the financial impact of jury duty: 1. Check if your county has a hardship exemption process. Many courts will excuse or postpone service if you can demonstrate significant financial hardship. 2. Ask about scheduling flexibility when you call in. Some courts allow you to request specific weeks that work better for your schedule. 3. If you're self-employed, consider whether the timing conflicts with your busy season and request a postponement to a slower period. 4. Keep detailed records of all costs anyway - mileage, parking, lost wages. Even though they're not currently deductible, tax laws do change and having documentation could be useful if legislation passes to make jury duty expenses deductible again. The system definitely needs reform, but in the meantime these strategies can help reduce the personal cost of fulfilling this civic duty. The parking reimbursement tip mentioned earlier is particularly valuable - definitely worth asking about even if they don't advertise it!
These are really practical suggestions! I especially appreciate the tip about hardship exemptions - I had no idea that was even an option. As someone who's been dreading the financial hit from jury duty, knowing I could potentially request a postponement to a less busy time for my freelance work is huge. The point about keeping detailed records even though they're not currently deductible is smart too. Tax laws have changed so much over the years, and who knows what might happen with future legislation. Better to have the documentation and not need it than the other way around. I'm definitely going to look into my county's hardship exemption process. Between the lost income from my consulting work and the 42-mile round trip, this could really help my situation. Thanks for taking the time to compile these tips!
Just wanted to add another perspective as someone who works in payroll and has dealt with jury duty situations for employees. One thing that's often overlooked is that some employers have better jury duty policies than others, and it's worth checking your employee handbook or HR policies before you serve. Some companies will pay your full salary during jury duty and let you keep the jury pay (so you actually come out slightly ahead). Others will pay the difference between your daily wage and the jury compensation. A few progressive companies even cover mileage or parking as part of their civic duty support. If your employer has a restrictive policy, it might be worth having a conversation with HR about the financial hardship, especially for longer trials. Many companies are willing to work with employees on a case-by-case basis even if it's not their standard policy. Also, for those tracking business mileage for self-employment - make sure you're using the correct mileage rate for 2025. The IRS hasn't announced the rate yet, but it was 67 cents per mile for 2024. That business mileage deduction can really add up over the year and partially offset some of the jury duty financial burden, even if you can't deduct the jury duty miles specifically.
This is really valuable information about employer policies! I had no idea there was such variation in how companies handle jury duty compensation. It's definitely worth checking with HR before assuming you'll have to take a financial hit. The point about the 2025 mileage rate is helpful too. Even though we can't deduct jury duty miles, making sure we're maximizing our legitimate business mileage deductions throughout the year can help offset some of these unavoidable civic duty costs. Every bit of tax savings helps when you're dealing with situations like this where you're essentially paying to serve your community. I'm going to review my employee handbook this week and see what my company's actual policy is. Sometimes these policies are buried in the fine print and people don't realize they have better options than they thought. Thanks for sharing your payroll expertise!
This is such valuable information! I've been meaning to look into this for months but kept procrastinating. The step-by-step guidance from @NightOwl42 about using the IRS.gov Get An IP PIN tool is exactly what I needed. And wow, I had no idea about checking for existing credit reports for kids - that's genuinely terrifying that theft can go undetected for years. Definitely setting calendar reminders for December renewals and keeping everything in my password manager. Thank you everyone for sharing your experiences and making this feel less overwhelming!
Same here! I've been dragging my feet on this for way too long. Seeing everyone's experiences really drives home how important this is. The part about checking existing credit reports for kids is what really got my attention - I never even considered that someone could already be using their SSNs without us knowing. Going to tackle both the IP PINs and credit checks this weekend while I'm motivated. Thanks for summarizing all the key points so well!
This thread has been incredibly eye-opening! As a parent of two young kids (ages 5 and 8), I've been worried about data breaches but didn't know there was something proactive I could do. The advice about getting IP PINs for ALL children regardless of age really hit home - it makes total sense that younger kids are actually more vulnerable since the theft would go undetected longer. I'm planning to set this up this weekend along with checking for any existing credit reports. Quick question though - when you check for credit reports for minors, do you just contact the three major bureaus directly? And should I expect any pushback since kids shouldn't have credit files in the first place?
Great questions! Yes, you contact Experian, Equifax, and TransUnion directly to request credit reports for your kids. You're right that children shouldn't have credit files, so if reports exist, that's a red flag for identity theft. The bureaus might ask for additional documentation to prove you're the parent (like birth certificates) since this isn't a typical request. Some may push back initially, but you have the legal right to check. If no credit file exists, that's good news! If files do exist, you'll need to work with the bureaus to freeze the accounts and file identity theft reports. It's definitely worth the peace of mind to check!
Has anyone here actually moved specifically for tax purposes and was it worth it? I'm considering leaving California for Nevada or Wyoming before selling my business next year (looking at a gain around $1.2 million), but wondering if the hassle is really worth the tax savings.
I moved from New York to Florida in 2021 specifically to avoid NY state tax on a large crypto windfall. Saved about $68,000 in state taxes, but California is even higher than NY so you'd save more. Totally worth it for me, but I was planning to leave NY anyway. Big warning though: establish residency AT LEAST a full year before your sale. NY department of revenue still tried to audit me even though I had clearly moved. Had to provide cell phone location data, utility bills, and even grocery receipts to prove I really lived in Florida.
With a $1.2 million gain, you're looking at potentially saving around $159,600 in California state taxes (13.3% top rate) by establishing residency in Nevada or Wyoming before selling. That's definitely life-changing money and worth the hassle for most people. However, California is notoriously aggressive about auditing people who move right before large financial events - they call it the "golden handcuffs" audit. You'll need to be absolutely meticulous about establishing true residency. I'd recommend: 1. Move at least 12-18 months before selling if possible 2. Spend at least 183+ days physically in your new state each year 3. Change EVERYTHING - voter registration, driver's license, bank accounts, doctors, etc. 4. Keep detailed records of where you spend each day 5. Consider selling your California residence entirely to show clear intent The audit risk is real but manageable if you truly commit to the move. Just don't try to fake it - California has sophisticated methods for tracking where people actually live and the penalties for getting caught are severe.
This is really helpful advice! I'm actually in a similar situation but with stock options instead of a business sale. One question - you mentioned keeping detailed records of where you spend each day. What's the best way to do this? Just a simple calendar or is there some app or system that would hold up better in an audit? Also, when you say "consider selling your California residence entirely," does that mean renting wouldn't be enough to show clear intent? I was thinking about keeping my current place as a rental property but maybe that's a red flag for auditors?
Harper Collins
I just went through this exact same situation a few months ago when I needed old W-2s from a restaurant job for a background check. Here's what I learned from trying basically every method mentioned in this thread: The IRS Get Transcript service really is your best option, but here's a tip that saved me a lot of headaches - if the online identity verification keeps failing, try using different variations of your address format. The system is really picky about how addresses are entered. If you lived at "123 Main Street Apt 2B" try "123 Main St #2B" or just "123 Main Street" without the apartment number. For Shake Shack specifically, I actually had luck calling their corporate HR line directly. They were surprisingly helpful and told me they use ADP for payroll. I was then able to contact ADP's employee services line with my SSN and employment dates, and they provided me with a wage statement that had all the same info as a W-2. Also want to second what others said about checking old email accounts - I found a "Your W-2 is ready" notification email from 2016 that I had completely forgotten about. Even though the link was expired, it reminded me that my employer had used a specific online portal (Workday) where I was able to recover my login and download the document. The whole process took about 2 weeks but was way less stressful than I expected. Don't let the awkwardness with your old manager stop you - there are definitely multiple ways to get this done without that conversation!
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Zoe Papadopoulos
ā¢This is such practical advice! The tip about trying different address formats for the IRS online verification is something I never would have thought of - I bet that's tripped up a lot of people who just assumed the system was broken. I definitely lived in apartments during that time period, so I'll try different variations of how I format the address. It's really encouraging to hear that Shake Shack's corporate HR was actually helpful and could tell you they use ADP. That gives me a clear path forward without having to deal with any potential awkwardness at the local level. And knowing that ADP was able to provide wage statements with the same info as W-2s is exactly what I was hoping to hear. The email search tip is brilliant too - I'm definitely going to dig through my old accounts tonight. Even if the actual links are expired, just having those reminder emails could help me remember which portals or systems I used back then. Thanks for sharing your complete timeline and emphasizing that it was less stressful than expected. That really helps set realistic expectations for the whole process!
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Connor O'Reilly
I've been through this exact situation and wanted to add a few more tips that might help! One thing I discovered is that if you filed your taxes electronically in 2015, there's a good chance your tax software provider still has your data archived, even if you can't access your old account. I had lost access to my old TurboTax account (college email issue just like you!), but when I called their customer support with my SSN and some basic info from that tax year, they were able to help me recover the account. They have pretty robust identity verification procedures that don't rely solely on email access. Also wanted to mention that some credit unions and banks that offered tax prep services back then (like Navy Federal or USAA) sometimes still have copies on file for members. If you used any financial institution for tax prep in 2015, it's worth giving them a call. One more thing - if you're dealing with a time crunch, the IRS can expedite transcript requests in certain situations (like for loan applications or legal proceedings). There's usually a fee involved, but it can get you the documents in 1-2 weeks instead of the standard 3-4 weeks for mail requests. The combination of IRS transcripts plus checking with corporate HR for the payroll processor should definitely get you what you need without any awkward conversations with old managers. Good luck!
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Gabrielle Dubois
ā¢This is incredibly helpful advice, especially the tip about calling TurboTax customer support even without email access! I had completely written off that option because I assumed there was no way to recover an account from so long ago. Knowing they have identity verification procedures that don't rely on the old email gives me hope. The point about credit unions and banks offering tax prep services is something I hadn't considered either. I think I was using a local credit union back then, so it's definitely worth checking if they kept any records from their tax services. And wow, I had no idea the IRS could expedite transcript requests! That's really good to know since I am dealing with a bit of a time crunch for this financial verification stuff. Even if there's a fee involved, it might be worth it to get everything resolved faster. Thanks for laying out such a comprehensive backup plan. Between all these different approaches, I'm feeling much more confident that I'll be able to get this sorted out without having to face any awkward conversations about my dramatic lunch rush exit! Really appreciate you sharing all these practical details from your own experience.
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