


Ask the community...
This has been an incredibly comprehensive and educational discussion! As someone who's been dealing with NOL carryforwards from a failed business venture, I can't thank everyone enough for breaking down all these complex interactions. What really stands out to me is how this started as a seemingly straightforward question about NOLs offsetting capital gains, but evolved into a masterclass on integrated tax planning. The 80% limitation is definitely real for post-2020 NOLs, but as many have pointed out, the strategic considerations go far beyond just that basic rule. I'm particularly grateful for the insights about state tax conformity issues - I'm in Illinois and had no idea that state NOL rules might differ from federal rules. That alone could significantly impact my planning for a potential property sale next year. The recommendation to get a comprehensive multi-year tax projection rather than just a quick consultation really resonates. Given all the variables discussed here - NIIT thresholds, depreciation recapture rates, suspended passive losses, timing strategies, and broader investment goals - it's clear that optimizing this requires professional modeling. One thing I'm curious about that hasn't been fully addressed - for those of us with NOLs from business failures rather than rental property losses, are there any additional considerations when applying them against real estate capital gains? I assume the same 80% limitation applies regardless of the NOL source, but wanted to confirm that. Thanks again to everyone who contributed such detailed expertise. This community is invaluable for navigating complex tax situations!
Great question about NOLs from business failures versus rental property losses! You're correct that the 80% limitation applies regardless of the source of the NOL - whether it came from a failed business, rental property losses, or any other type of business loss that created the NOL carryforward. The key distinction is that business NOLs (like from your failed venture) are treated differently from passive activity losses. Business NOLs can offset any type of income including capital gains, wages, and investment income, subject to that 80% limitation for post-2020 losses. This is actually more flexible than passive losses, which have their own separate rules and limitations. One advantage of business-generated NOLs is that they're not subject to the passive activity loss limitations that rental property owners have to navigate. So in some ways, your situation might be more straightforward than those dealing with both NOLs and suspended passive losses from rentals. However, you'll definitely want to check Illinois's conformity to federal NOL rules. Some states have their own carryforward periods, limitation percentages, or even completely different treatment of NOLs. Illinois generally follows federal tax law for many provisions, but NOLs can be an exception in some states. The multi-year projection approach that others have recommended is especially important in your case since you're planning ahead for next year's property sale rather than reacting to an immediate situation. This gives you more time to optimize the timing and structure of the sale to maximize your NOL benefits while considering all the other factors discussed in this thread.
This has been an absolutely fascinating and comprehensive discussion that I've been following closely! As someone who's been wrestling with NOL carryforwards from my consulting business that struggled during the pandemic, I really appreciate how thoroughly everyone has covered the intersection of NOLs and capital gains. The confirmation that NOLs can indeed offset capital gains (with the 80% limitation for post-2020 losses) is exactly what I needed to hear. I've been sitting on some appreciated stock positions and wasn't sure whether it made sense to realize those gains this year given my NOL situation. What's particularly valuable is how this discussion has highlighted all the interconnected considerations - from state tax conformity issues to NIIT thresholds to the timing strategies for multi-year optimization. I had been thinking about this as just a simple federal tax question, but clearly there are many more layers to consider. The recommendation for comprehensive tax projections rather than quick consultations really hits home. Given the complexity everyone has outlined here, it's obvious that optimizing NOL usage requires professional modeling that accounts for all these variables simultaneously. One question I haven't seen addressed - for those of us with NOLs who are also considering Roth IRA conversions, how do NOLs interact with conversion income? Can NOLs offset the taxable income from Roth conversions, potentially creating opportunities to convert at lower effective tax rates? Thanks to everyone who has shared such detailed expertise - this community continues to amaze me with the quality of tax planning discussions!
Just wanted to chime in - be careful about what's on your EIN letter. Mine also mentioned Form 720, but my accountant explained that the IRS often lists ALL potential forms a business might need, not necessarily what your specific business requires. Form 720 is pretty specialized for excise taxes on specific products/services.
That's really helpful context! So basically the EIN paperwork is showing possibilities rather than requirements? Has anyone else found their EIN paperwork listing forms they didn't actually need to file?
Exactly right - the EIN paperwork often lists various potential forms as a general notice rather than specific requirements for your business. This happens all the time with my clients. When you apply for an EIN, the IRS system generates paperwork that includes information about forms that might potentially be relevant based on very broad business categories. It's more of a "heads up" about possible requirements rather than a specific directive for your unique business situation. Many of my clients have had forms listed that weren't actually applicable to their specific operations.
I run a small greenhouse business which has some similarities to landscaping. I've never had to file Form 720 because I don't deal with any of the excise taxable items. If you're just doing regular landscaping you should be fine without it! My advice is to check Schedule C instructions (if you're a single-member LLC) to make sure you're handling your tax situation correctly for your business type.
Are you sure about this? I thought Form 720 was related to payroll taxes. That's what my buddy who runs a business told me.
Has anyone run into issues with employees who moved further away after going remote? We have some team members who relocated to rural areas 60+ miles from our client base after we went fully remote. When they come in for client meetings, they're claiming much higher mileage than when they lived closer to the metro area.
This is a great question that many remote-first companies are grappling with! Based on everything discussed here, it sounds like you're actually handling this correctly already. When employees work from home 100% of the time and don't have a regular office they report to, their home becomes their established workplace for tax purposes. The key factors that support your current approach: - Your team is truly 100% remote (no physical office they report to) - Travel from home to client sites constitutes business travel, not commuting - Reimbursing at the standard IRS rate keeps it non-taxable for employees A few recommendations to strengthen your compliance: 1. Update your employee handbook/agreements to explicitly designate home as the official workplace 2. Implement stronger documentation requirements (business purpose, exact addresses, odometer readings) 3. Ensure you're following accountable plan rules (timely submission, business connection, excess repayment) The fact that you don't have a brick-and-mortar office actually makes this cleaner from a tax perspective - there's no ambiguity about where employees' "regular workplace" is located. Keep doing what you're doing, just tighten up the documentation!
This is really helpful advice! I'm curious about the documentation requirements you mentioned - what specific details should we be requiring beyond just mileage amounts? We currently have employees submit expense reports with total miles and client names, but it sounds like we might need more detailed tracking. Also, regarding the accountable plan rules - what constitutes "timely submission"? We currently require expense reports within 30 days of the trip. Is that sufficient, or should we be more strict about timing?
I went through something very similar last year - filed in February and didn't get my refund until July! It turned out the IRS had flagged my return for manual review because I claimed both the Child Tax Credit and education credits, which apparently triggers additional scrutiny. A few things that helped me get answers: 1. **Check your tax transcript** - Giovanni's advice about this is spot on. The codes will tell you way more than the "Where's My Refund" tool ever will. 2. **Don't wait for letters** - In my experience, IRS notices can take weeks to arrive or sometimes get lost in the mail. If your transcript shows a 971 code, call them directly rather than waiting. 3. **Document everything** - Keep records of every call attempt, reference numbers, and what representatives tell you. This becomes important if you need to escalate. 4. **Consider the Taxpayer Advocate Service** - If you've been waiting over 120 days (which you have), they can intervene. They're actually pretty effective at cutting through the bureaucracy. The frustrating reality is that certain combinations of credits and deductions just automatically trigger delays, even when everything is perfectly correct. It's not fair, but knowing this helps you prepare for next year. Hang in there - you will get your money!
This is really helpful, thank you! I'm curious about your point regarding certain credit combinations triggering automatic delays. Are there any resources that list which credits or deductions are most likely to cause processing delays? It would be useful to know this for planning purposes in future years. Also, when you finally got through to the IRS, did they tell you upfront that the Child Tax Credit + education credits combination was the issue, or did you have to push for that information?
I'm dealing with a similar situation and wanted to share what I've learned after months of research and calls. The IRS doesn't publish an official list of which credits trigger delays, but based on my experience and talking to multiple agents, here are the common culprits: **High-risk combinations that often cause delays:** - Child Tax Credit + Education Credits (AOTC/Lifetime Learning) - Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) + Additional Child Tax Credit - Recovery Rebate Credit claims (missing stimulus payments) - First-time homebuyer credits - Premium Tax Credits with marketplace insurance **Single items that frequently trigger review:** - Large charitable deductions (especially non-cash) - Home office deductions for self-employed - Casualty loss claims - Prior year minimum tax credits The agents won't always tell you upfront what triggered the review - I had to specifically ask "What caused my return to be flagged?" and even then, some representatives were vague about it. One agent finally explained that their system uses algorithms to score returns for fraud risk, and certain combinations just automatically get higher scores. For future years, if you know you'll be claiming these credits, file as early as possible and consider using direct deposit to speed up the process once it's approved. The delays are frustrating but usually resolve eventually - just takes patience and persistence!
This is incredibly useful information, thank you Dmitry! I wish the IRS would just be transparent about these scoring algorithms instead of leaving taxpayers in the dark. It's frustrating that filing legitimate claims can essentially penalize you with months of delays. One question - when you mention filing "as early as possible," do you mean there's actually a processing advantage to filing in January versus February? I always thought the IRS just processed returns in the order received, but maybe early filers get through the system before the backlog builds up? Also, has anyone had success with adjusting their withholdings to minimize refunds and avoid this whole mess? I'm considering having my employer take out less so I owe a small amount instead of getting a large refund, just to avoid the uncertainty.
Mila Walker
Based on all the excellent advice in this thread, you're definitely in a much better position than most people dealing with bonus repayments since everything is happening within 2025. Your 66.7% calculation ($5,000 of the $7,500 gross bonus) looks correct for the 8-month shortfall. The key takeaway from everyone's experience is absolutely getting written documentation BEFORE making any repayment. I'd specifically recommend asking for: 1. **Exact repayment amount confirmation** - Make sure you and your employer are calculating the pro-rating the same way 2. **W-2 adjustment guarantee** - Written confirmation they'll reduce Box 1 wages, Box 2 federal withholding, and Boxes 3/5 FICA by the appropriate amounts 3. **Original bonus tax breakdown** - Since it was combined with regular pay, get details on how much federal/state/FICA was withheld from just the bonus portion The suggestion several people made about having it deducted from your final paycheck is brilliant - it would essentially reverse the original transaction through the same payroll system and make the tax adjustments automatic. Don't let HR pressure you into making a quick repayment without proper documentation. Same-year repayments should result in a clean W-2 adjustment, but only if your employer handles it correctly. Take advantage of the time you have before your last day to get all these details sorted out properly. Good luck with your new position!
0 coins
Lucas Notre-Dame
ā¢This is such a helpful summary of all the key points! As someone who's been lurking in this thread trying to understand bonus repayments, I really appreciate how you've distilled all the expert advice into these three essential documentation requests. The point about not letting HR pressure you into a quick repayment really resonates with me. It's clear from everyone's experiences that taking the time upfront to get proper documentation prevents major headaches later. The stories about people having to chase down corrected W-2s months later definitely make it obvious why the "documentation first, payment second" approach is so important. I'm curious about one thing that hasn't been mentioned much - should @Hunter Brighton also be asking about any potential impact on year-end bonus calculations or other compensation that might be tied to employment duration? Since he s'leaving before completing a full year, I m'wondering if there are other financial implications beyond just the sign-on bonus repayment that he should clarify while having these conversations with HR and payroll. The final paycheck deduction approach really does seem like the cleanest solution from everything I ve'read here. It s'smart to leverage the existing payroll system rather than trying to handle this as a separate transaction that could create more opportunities for errors.
0 coins
ApolloJackson
This thread has been incredibly helpful! I can't thank everyone enough for sharing their experiences and professional insights. Based on all the advice here, I feel much more confident about handling this situation properly. My plan is to schedule a meeting with both HR and payroll this week to get everything documented before I make any repayment. I'll specifically request: 1. Written confirmation of the exact $5,000 repayment amount (66.7% of gross bonus) 2. Detailed breakdown of how the original $7,500 bonus was taxed in my February paycheck 3. Written guarantee that my 2025 W-2 will be adjusted to reduce wages and all associated withholdings 4. Information about processing this as a deduction from my final paycheck The consensus from everyone - especially the tax professionals who commented - is crystal clear: don't pay anything back without proper documentation of the W-2 adjustment process. Since I'm fortunate to be repaying in the same tax year, this should be much cleaner than cross-year situations. I'll make sure to get everything in writing and will follow up if I run into any issues. Thanks again to everyone who shared their experiences and expertise - this community is amazing!
0 coins
Dylan Evans
ā¢This sounds like a solid plan! You're definitely approaching this the right way by getting everything documented upfront. One thing I'd add to your meeting agenda - ask about the timeline for when they'll process the W-2 adjustment. Some companies need a few weeks to get the paperwork through their system, so you want to make sure there's enough time before year-end for everything to be processed correctly. Also, don't forget to ask for a copy of whatever written confirmation they provide. Having your own records will be crucial if any issues come up later. It's great that you're being so thorough about this - it'll definitely save you headaches down the road!
0 coins