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Understanding the Key Differences between Tax Refunds vs Returns + Important W-4 Tips

I wanted to put together a quick explanation to clear up some common tax confusion I've been seeing on this sub lately. **Refunds vs Returns - What's the actual difference?** A tax RETURN is the form/paperwork you fill out and submit to the IRS. This is what you're actually "filing" each year. On your tax RETURN, you calculate your total tax liability (what you actually owe for the year). Then you compare your tax liability with what was already withheld from your paychecks on your W-2: * If your Tax Liability > Tax Withheld = You gotta pay the difference. Your paychecks during the year were larger than they should've been. You might want to update your W-4 to have more tax taken out each check so you don't get hit with a big bill next year. * If your Tax Liability < Tax Withheld = You get a REFUND. Basically, you gave Uncle Sam an interest-free loan all year. You might wanna change your W-4 to have less taken out so you get more in each paycheck. Ideally, you want to be close to breaking even - either a tiny refund or owing just a small amount. One more super important thing - YOUR W-4 IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, not your employer's! I can't stress this enough. In like 99% of cases, your employer did exactly what you told them to do on your W-4. After you file this year, look at your W-4 and consider if you need to make adjustments based on your results. Hope this helps some folks! I got tired of seeing these terms mixed up constantly.

Nathan Kim

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Can someone explain how bonuses work with taxes? I got a $3000 bonus last year and they took out like $1200 for taxes! Is there any way to get some of that back or have less taken out next time?

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Nathan Kim

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Thanks for explaining! That makes so much more sense now. So basically there's nothing I can do to prevent the high withholding when I get the bonus, but I'll get the extra back when I file my taxes if I'm in a lower bracket?

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Freya Nielsen

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Exactly right! The 22% withholding on bonuses is just the default rate employers use - it's not necessarily your actual tax rate. When you file your return, that bonus income gets added to your regular salary and taxed at your normal marginal rate. If you're in the 12% bracket, for example, you'll get back about 10% of what was withheld from your bonus. It's one of those situations where the withholding system errs on the side of taking too much rather than too little.

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Ana Rusula

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Great post! One thing I'd add is about timing - if you're making W-4 adjustments based on this year's return, try to do it sooner rather than later in the year. I made the mistake of waiting until October to adjust mine after getting a huge refund, so I only got a few months of corrected withholding. Also, for anyone who's married, don't forget that both spouses' W-4s need to work together. If one spouse claims all the credits and deductions on their W-4 while the other claims none, it can mess up your withholding calculations. The IRS withholding calculator actually has an option for married couples filing jointly that takes both incomes into account - definitely worth using if your situation is more complex than just one W-2.

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Don't overthink this! Just split the difference by claiming "single, 0 dependents" on both jobs and adding extra withholding on the higher paying job. I did this for years and it worked fine. The tax brackets jump pretty significantly around 100k so having both jobs pushes you into higher rates that neither job accounts for alone.

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Axel Bourke

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I went through this exact same situation last year with two jobs totaling around $140k, and I can definitely relate to the stress! Here's what worked for me: The key thing to understand is that each employer calculates withholding as if their job is your only income. So with $73k + $64k, you're actually in a much higher tax bracket than either employer realizes. I ended up using the IRS Tax Withholding Estimator (it's free on irs.gov) and it was actually pretty accurate despite seeming complicated at first. For your income level, you'll likely need to have additional withholding from one job - probably around $400-500 per month based on my experience. In ADP and Workday, look for these sections: - Step 2(c): Check the "Multiple Jobs" box on BOTH forms - Step 4(c): Add the extra withholding amount on your HIGHER paying job only Don't add extra withholding to both jobs or you'll way overwithhold. I made that mistake initially and got a huge refund, which isn't ideal either. If the online tools are still confusing, honestly your HR departments should be able to help you navigate their specific systems. Most have dealt with this before since multiple jobs are pretty common now. You've got this! Better to figure it out now than get surprised at tax time.

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Maya Patel

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This is super helpful, thank you! I'm in almost the exact same boat with similar income levels. Quick question - when you say add $400-500 per month in extra withholding, is that on top of what they're already withholding normally? Also, did you notice any issues with timing since I'm starting this mid-year rather than at the beginning of the year?

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I'm dealing with a similar situation right now! Our 28-unit condo association has been mailing checks for our 1120-H payments for the past few years without any issues. We typically owe around $150-200 annually on our reserve fund interest. Reading through all these responses, I'm now thinking we should probably set up EFTPS for next year just to be safe. The conflicting experiences people are having with penalties is making me nervous - it seems like there might be some inconsistency in how the IRS is applying the electronic payment requirements to small associations. @Owen Jenkins - definitely contest that penalty! Based on what others have shared here, it doesn't sound like that penalty should apply to your situation. The fact that you've been successfully paying by check in previous years should work in your favor. One question for the group: has anyone had success using IRS Direct Pay instead of EFTPS? I've heard it might be simpler for one-time annual payments, but I'm not sure if it works for business tax payments or just individual returns.

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Great question about IRS Direct Pay! I actually looked into this for our association last year. Unfortunately, IRS Direct Pay is only available for individual tax payments (Forms 1040, estimated taxes, etc.) and doesn't work for business entities like condo associations filing Form 1120-H. For business tax payments, your options are really EFTPS, wire transfers, or checks with payment vouchers. EFTPS is definitely the most practical choice since wire transfers have fees and the check method seems to be creating issues for some associations. Given the inconsistency in penalty enforcement that people are experiencing, I'd strongly recommend setting up EFTPS sooner rather than later. It's really not that complicated once you get through the initial registration, and having the electronic confirmation eliminates any ambiguity about whether your payment was received and properly credited. The 7-10 day PIN mailing process is probably the biggest hurdle, but it's a one-time setup that will serve your association for years to come.

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As someone who's been through this exact confusion with our 24-unit association, I can share what we learned after extensive research and consultation with our CPA. The key distinction is between "federal tax deposits" (which require EFTPS) and annual tax payments. Small condo associations filing 1120-H typically fall into a gray area because we're not making regular quarterly deposits like larger entities. Here's what we discovered: If your association owes less than $1,000 in taxes annually and doesn't have employees (no payroll taxes), you technically have more flexibility. However, the IRS has been moving toward requiring electronic payments across the board, and their enforcement seems inconsistent for small associations. Our solution was to set up EFTPS despite not being strictly required. The registration took about 10 days to receive the PIN by mail, but now we have peace of mind knowing our payments are immediately confirmed and properly credited. For your immediate situation, if you're close to your filing deadline and haven't set up EFTPS yet, you can still send a check with Form 8109-B to the address specified in the 1120-H instructions. Just make sure your EIN and "Form 1120-H" are clearly written on the check. But definitely consider setting up EFTPS for next year - it's worth the one-time hassle to avoid any potential issues down the road.

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Yara Khoury

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This is really helpful information! I'm new to managing our condo association's finances and have been overwhelmed by all the conflicting guidance about payment methods. The distinction you made between "federal tax deposits" and "annual tax payments" really clarifies things. Our association is similar to yours - 30 units, no employees, and we typically owe around $180 annually on reserve interest. Based on your experience and what others have shared here, it sounds like setting up EFTPS is the smart move even if we're technically not required to use it. One quick question: when you set up EFTPS, did you need any special documentation beyond your EIN, or was it pretty straightforward? I want to make sure I have everything ready when I start the registration process. Thanks for sharing your experience - it's exactly the kind of real-world guidance I was looking for!

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Dylan Wright

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This has been such an informative discussion! I'm a new small business owner and was completely overwhelmed by 1099 requirements until I found this thread. One question I haven't seen addressed yet - what about timing? I know the general deadline for filing 1099s is January 31st, but when should I be requesting W-9s from new vendors? Should I get them before I make any payments, or is it okay to request them later in the year as long as I have them before the filing deadline? Also, for those who mentioned getting W-9s as part of vendor onboarding - do you have any tips for vendors who are reluctant to provide them? I've had a couple small contractors push back saying they don't want to give out their SSN or tax information upfront.

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Aisha Mahmood

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Great questions! For timing, I always recommend getting W-9s BEFORE making any payments. This protects you from scrambling at year-end and potentially missing the 1099 filing deadline if vendors are unresponsive. Plus, you'll know upfront whether you need to track payments for 1099 purposes. For reluctant vendors, I explain that providing a W-9 is a standard business requirement - you're legally required to collect this information before making payments of $600+ per year. I emphasize that it's just for tax reporting compliance, not a credit check or anything invasive. You can also mention that if they refuse to provide a W-9, you're required by IRS regulations to withhold 24% backup withholding from their payments, which usually motivates them to cooperate! Most legitimate business vendors understand this is normal - it's the ones operating in cash or trying to avoid taxes who typically resist. Having a clear vendor onboarding process that explains this requirement upfront helps set expectations and weeds out problematic contractors before you start working together.

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As a tax professional, I want to emphasize that everyone here has provided excellent guidance! The corporate exemption rule is indeed the key factor, and 501(c)(3) nonprofit corporations are absolutely exempt from 1099 reporting requirements for rent payments. One additional point I'd like to add: if you're ever unsure about a vendor's status, the IRS has a specific test for determining corporate exemption. The organization must be incorporated under state law AND have corporate characteristics (limited liability, centralized management, etc.). All properly formed 501(c)(3) nonprofit corporations meet this test. Also, while we're discussing documentation, I recommend keeping a simple spreadsheet tracking all your vendors with their classification status and whether 1099s are required. This makes year-end reporting much smoother and provides a clear audit trail if questions arise later. The $23,400 you mentioned definitely would have triggered the 1099 requirement if this were an unincorporated entity, but since it's a nonprofit corporation, you're all set - no 1099 needed!

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Thank you for that professional perspective! The spreadsheet idea is brilliant - I've been handling our vendor payments somewhat haphazardly and this would definitely help me stay organized. I'm curious about something you mentioned regarding the "corporate characteristics" test. For most 501(c)(3) organizations, is this pretty straightforward to determine, or are there edge cases where a nonprofit might be incorporated but not meet the corporate characteristics requirement? I want to make sure I'm not missing any nuances that could affect my 1099 reporting obligations. Also, when you mention keeping an audit trail, what specific information do you recommend tracking beyond just the vendor name and corporation status? I want to make sure I'm documenting everything properly in case of future questions.

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One thing I didn't see mentioned that really helped me was getting proper accounting software right from the start. I use QuickBooks Self-Employed and it makes categorizing expenses and tracking mileage so much easier. Connects to your bank accounts and credit cards to automatically import transactions. At tax time, it generates reports that make filing so much simpler, especially for Schedule C. It also helps calculate quarterly estimated taxes based on your actual income and expenses.

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Carmen Ruiz

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Do you think QuickBooks is worth the monthly cost? I've been using a spreadsheet so far but it's getting unwieldy as my business grows. Are there any free alternatives that are decent?

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Absolutely worth the cost in my opinion. The time savings alone pays for itself - what used to take me hours each month now takes minutes. Plus it reduces the chances of errors or missing deductions. The mileage tracker alone saves me hundreds in deductions I would have forgotten to log. There are free alternatives like Wave Accounting which is decent for basic bookkeeping. But they typically lack the more advanced features like receipt scanning and mileage tracking. If you're grossing $135k, investing $15-25 per month in proper accounting software is definitely worth it. Just remember to deduct the subscription cost as a business expense!

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Don't forget about business insurance as a tax deduction! As a sole proprietor, having general liability insurance and professional liability/E&O insurance is not only smart protection, but also fully deductible. Same with health insurance premiums. Also, if you use your cell phone for business, you can deduct the business percentage. Same with internet. And if you pay for any continuing education related to your field, that's deductible too.

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Dylan Wright

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Does anyone know if disability insurance is also deductible? I've been thinking about getting it since as a sole proprietor I don't have any safety net if I get sick or injured and can't work.

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Unfortunately, disability insurance premiums are generally not tax deductible for sole proprietors when you pay them with after-tax dollars. The trade-off is that if you ever need to use the disability benefits, those payments would be tax-free to you. However, you're absolutely right to consider getting it! As a sole proprietor, you ARE your business. If you can't work, your income stops immediately. Look into both short-term and long-term disability coverage. Some insurers offer "business overhead expense" coverage too, which can help pay your business expenses if you're temporarily unable to work. Even though it's not deductible, think of it as essential business protection rather than just personal insurance. The peace of mind alone is worth it when you don't have employer benefits to fall back on.

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