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Another option - if you use a payroll service like Homepay or SurePayroll for your household employees, they can usually generate and file the W3 for you, even retroactively! I did this last year when I realized I had messed up my nanny's taxes. It costs a bit, but they handle all the forms and even deal with the SSA directly. Saved me tons of headache trying to figure out all the forms myself.
I didn't use a payroll service last year, which is probably why I'm in this mess now! Do you know if these services can help with fixing past mistakes if I wasn't using them before? Or is it too late?
They can definitely help with past mistakes even if you weren't using them before! Both Homepay and SurePayroll offer "catch up" services where they'll help you file the missing forms from previous years. You'll need to provide them with the payment information for your household employee from 2023, and they can generate the proper W2 and W3 forms. They usually charge a one-time fee for this service rather than making you sign up for ongoing payroll. It's totally worth considering if you want to make sure everything gets done correctly without having to learn all the details yourself.
One thing to watch out for - make sure you're using the CORRECT year W3 form! I made this mistake and it caused even more headaches. The 2023 W3 form is specifically for wages paid in 2023, not the year you're filing in. Also, if the SSA is asking you to submit these forms now, you might face penalties for late filing. You can request a penalty abatement by attaching a letter explaining why you filed late (reasonable cause). I did this when I messed up my housekeeper's forms and they waived most of the penalties.
This is really important advice. I accidentally used the wrong year form once and it was a nightmare to fix. Another tip - keep copies of EVERYTHING you send to the SSA. I had to reference my copies when there was a mix-up with my household employee's Social Security earnings.
For what it's worth, I've been using different services for extensions vs filing for years. Usually do my extension through the free fillable forms on the IRS website since it's super basic, then use TaxAct for my actual return. Never had an issue. Just make sure wherever you file the extension gives you confirmation that it was accepted by the IRS.
Do you have to create an account with the IRS to use their free fillable forms for the extension? And is it actually free or do they try to upsell you?
You do need to create an account on the Free File Fillable Forms site, but it's pretty straightforward. It's completely free with no upsells - it's the official IRS program. It's basically just the raw forms without any guidance, so the extension form (4868) is simple enough, but some people find the complete tax forms overwhelming without software guidance. For just the extension though, it's a great free option.
Does anyone know if filing an extension affects your refund timing? Like if I'm owed money, will I get it later because I extended?
I'm a manager (not in your company) and what your employer is suggesting is absolutely wrong and illegal. We once had an owner suggest something similar and our entire management team had to step in and explain the serious legal consequences. Here's what your company SHOULD be doing: - Providing FMLA paperwork if they have enough employees to qualify - Looking into short-term disability options - Checking if your state has paid family leave (many do now) - Being honest about what they can and cannot provide Asking you to lie on government forms is never okay, and shows they're trying to exploit the system rather than properly supporting their employees.
Thank you for this perspective. Could you clarify about the FMLA part? I thought that only applied to companies with 50+ employees, and we only have 9 total. Are there similar protections for smaller businesses?
You're absolutely right about FMLA - it only applies to companies with 50+ employees, so your company is too small to be required to provide that protection. I should have been more clear. However, many states have enacted their own family leave laws that extend to smaller businesses. Depending on where you live, there might be state-specific protections even though you're not covered by federal FMLA. For example, some states require even small employers to provide job protection and/or paid leave. That's definitely worth looking into based on your specific location.
Wait, I'm confused about one thing - isn't your employer allowed to lay you off for business reasons? If their business really is down 30%, couldn't they legitimately lay you off and then you'd be eligible for unemployment? Or is it specifically because they're promising to hire you back that makes this fraud?
The fraud part is the intentional misrepresentation. If they're specifically timing a "layoff" to coincide with maternity leave and have already promised to bring her back at a specific date, that's not a true layoff - it's a planned temporary absence that they're trying to disguise as a layoff to shift costs to the state. A legitimate layoff would be based solely on business needs, not timed specifically to coincide with a planned medical event, and wouldn't come with a guaranteed rehire date.
One thing no one has mentioned yet is that your friend should make sure he gets a W-9 from the helper BEFORE paying them. This creates a paper trail proving he tried to do everything correctly. I learned this the hard way when one of my contractors ghosted me after payment and I couldn't complete their 1099 properly. The IRS can actually penalize you for missing or incorrect 1099s even if it wasn't your fault.
What exactly happens if you can't get someone to fill out a W-9? Like if they refuse or you just can't reach them anymore? Are you still supposed to issue the 1099 somehow?
If someone refuses to complete a W-9 or you can't reach them after payment, you're technically supposed to begin backup withholding at a rate of 24% on any future payments to that person. This means holding back that percentage and remitting it to the IRS. For the 1099-NEC, you should still issue it with whatever information you do have. If you're missing their tax ID number, the IRS may send you a B-notice requesting the missing information. The best protection is documenting your attempts to get their information (emails, certified letters, etc.). The IRS understands these situations happen, but they want to see you made a good faith effort to comply.
Be careful about the "20 Factor Test" the IRS uses! Even if someone brings their own tools, they might still be considered an employee if your friend controls WHEN and HOW they do the work. For example, if your friend says "be at this location at 9am, do the lawn this way, and leave at 5pm" - that's looking more like an employee relationship even with their own tools.
Zara Mirza
One thing nobody's mentioned yet is the Accumulated Earnings Tax that C-corps face if they retain too much profit without a business purpose. Since you mentioned wanting to reinvest rather than distribute profits, this could become an issue if your C-corp builds up substantial retained earnings. The IRS might question why you're accumulating earnings instead of paying dividends, and could impose an additional tax. There's a presumptive threshold (about $250k) where this can trigger scrutiny, though you can justify higher retained earnings if you have legitimate business needs. An LLC doesn't face this issue since profits are taxed at the individual level regardless of whether they're distributed.
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Luca Russo
β’Can you explain more about this Accumulated Earnings Tax? I've never heard of it but might be in a similar situation with my business. Is there a way to document plans for the retained earnings to avoid this tax?
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Zara Mirza
β’Yes, you can document specific plans for using the accumulated earnings to avoid the tax. The IRS looks for "reasonable needs of the business" - things like expansion plans, equipment purchases, research and development, or contingency funds for specific business risks. The key is having a concrete plan, not just a vague notion of "future growth." Documentation is crucial - board meeting minutes approving a specific expansion plan with estimated costs, for example. For an investment business, you could document plans to make specific types of larger investments that require accumulated capital. Just be aware that "investing in the market" isn't typically considered a reasonable business need since that's what investment companies do by default.
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Nia Harris
My accountant pointed out something important that hasn't been mentioned yet - if you form a C-corp just for investing, you might run into the Personal Holding Company (PHC) tax issue. This is a punitive tax (currently 20%) on undistributed income for closely-held corporations where passive income (like from investments) makes up more than 60% of gross income. This is specifically designed to prevent people from using corporations as tax shelters for investment income. So if investment is your primary activity in the C-corp, you might face this additional tax burden.
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Ravi Malhotra
β’That's concerning and something I hadn't come across in my research. Between this PHC tax and the Accumulated Earnings Tax mentioned above, it sounds like there are multiple ways the IRS can penalize a C-corp used primarily for investments. Would an LLC taxed as an S-corp help avoid these specific issues while still potentially reducing self-employment taxes?
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Nia Harris
β’Exactly - the LLC taxed as an S-corp would avoid both the PHC tax and Accumulated Earnings Tax issues completely. S-corps are pass-through entities, so there's no concept of "undistributed earnings" at the corporate level to tax. The S-corp approach can help reduce self-employment taxes because you can split your income between salary (subject to SE tax) and distributions (not subject to SE tax). Just be careful - your salary must be "reasonable" for the services you provide. For an investment business where your active participation might be limited, this benefit could be minimal since most of your income might be considered passive already and not subject to SE tax regardless of structure. Talk to your accountant about the "material participation" tests for your specific situation to determine whether your investment activities would qualify as active or passive income.
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