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Hey tax folks, I'm in a bit of a head-scratcher situation with a client who's an attorney. They want to know if they can claim the Lifetime Learning Credit (LLC) for CPA exam prep courses they're taking. I've been digging through T Reg 1.162-5(a) but feeling unsure. My initial instinct was no, since traditional CPA candidates can't deduct these costs. But I'm second-guessing myself because this attorney already does accounting-related work in their practice and seems to just be adding credentials rather than preparing for an entirely new profession. The lawyer is self-employed and I'm wondering if they could potentially deduct these costs on Schedule C instead? The way I see it, they can already legally perform many CPA functions in their current practice - this is just formalizing their knowledge with a credential. Has anyone dealt with a similar situation or have thoughts on whether the Lifetime Learning Credit (LLC) would apply here? Or maybe the Schedule C approach makes more sense? I'd appreciate any insights!
I'm struggling to figure out the best tax structure for my investment activities and would appreciate some insight. Currently considering forming a single member LLC for investing/trading to limit my liability. My dilemma is this: with my full-time job, I'm already in the 22% tax bracket. Based on my projections, the investment profits would push me into the 24% bracket since an LLC is a pass-through entity. Most of my gains will be short-term, which I understand would be taxed at my personal rate. Plus, I'd get hit with self-employment tax on top of that. I've been researching using a C corporation instead (not an S corp). This would give me the corporate tax rate of 21%, which seems like a slight advantage. I also like that my personal and investment taxes would be completely separate. My plan is to reinvest all profits rather than taking distributions - I don't need the investment income for personal expenses. What would be the better approach from a tax perspective? Are there drawbacks to the C corp structure for an investment-focused business that I'm not seeing? Any advice from those who've been in a similar situation would be really helpful.
One thing nobody's mentioned yet is the Accumulated Earnings Tax that C-corps face if they retain too much profit without a business purpose. Since you mentioned wanting to reinvest rather than distribute profits, this could become an issue if your C-corp builds up substantial retained earnings. The IRS might question why you're accumulating earnings instead of paying dividends, and could impose an additional tax. There's a presumptive threshold (about $250k) where this can trigger scrutiny, though you can justify higher retained earnings if you have legitimate business needs. An LLC doesn't face this issue since profits are taxed at the individual level regardless of whether they're distributed.
Can you explain more about this Accumulated Earnings Tax? I've never heard of it but might be in a similar situation with my business. Is there a way to document plans for the retained earnings to avoid this tax?
Yes, you can document specific plans for using the accumulated earnings to avoid the tax. The IRS looks for "reasonable needs of the business" - things like expansion plans, equipment purchases, research and development, or contingency funds for specific business risks. The key is having a concrete plan, not just a vague notion of "future growth." Documentation is crucial - board meeting minutes approving a specific expansion plan with estimated costs, for example. For an investment business, you could document plans to make specific types of larger investments that require accumulated capital. Just be aware that "investing in the market" isn't typically considered a reasonable business need since that's what investment companies do by default.
My accountant pointed out something important that hasn't been mentioned yet - if you form a C-corp just for investing, you might run into the Personal Holding Company (PHC) tax issue. This is a punitive tax (currently 20%) on undistributed income for closely-held corporations where passive income (like from investments) makes up more than 60% of gross income. This is specifically designed to prevent people from using corporations as tax shelters for investment income. So if investment is your primary activity in the C-corp, you might face this additional tax burden.
That's concerning and something I hadn't come across in my research. Between this PHC tax and the Accumulated Earnings Tax mentioned above, it sounds like there are multiple ways the IRS can penalize a C-corp used primarily for investments. Would an LLC taxed as an S-corp help avoid these specific issues while still potentially reducing self-employment taxes?
Exactly - the LLC taxed as an S-corp would avoid both the PHC tax and Accumulated Earnings Tax issues completely. S-corps are pass-through entities, so there's no concept of "undistributed earnings" at the corporate level to tax. The S-corp approach can help reduce self-employment taxes because you can split your income between salary (subject to SE tax) and distributions (not subject to SE tax). Just be careful - your salary must be "reasonable" for the services you provide. For an investment business where your active participation might be limited, this benefit could be minimal since most of your income might be considered passive already and not subject to SE tax regardless of structure. Talk to your accountant about the "material participation" tests for your specific situation to determine whether your investment activities would qualify as active or passive income.
So I've completely botched my household employee tax situation for 2023 and now I'm in a bind. I hired a nanny last year and didn't realize I needed to file W2 and W3 forms. Now the SSA is telling me I need to send these in to fix my mistake. I've been looking everywhere for a 2023 W3 form and I'm hitting dead ends. The IRS website doesn't seem to have a way to order physical copies, I checked Staples and Office Depot with no luck, and even Amazon doesn't have them. I know I can't just print the W3 form online like some other tax forms. Does anyone know where I can actually get my hands on an official 2023 W3 form? I'm starting to panic a little since the SSA is waiting on this paperwork.
Another option - if you use a payroll service like Homepay or SurePayroll for your household employees, they can usually generate and file the W3 for you, even retroactively! I did this last year when I realized I had messed up my nanny's taxes. It costs a bit, but they handle all the forms and even deal with the SSA directly. Saved me tons of headache trying to figure out all the forms myself.
I didn't use a payroll service last year, which is probably why I'm in this mess now! Do you know if these services can help with fixing past mistakes if I wasn't using them before? Or is it too late?
They can definitely help with past mistakes even if you weren't using them before! Both Homepay and SurePayroll offer "catch up" services where they'll help you file the missing forms from previous years. You'll need to provide them with the payment information for your household employee from 2023, and they can generate the proper W2 and W3 forms. They usually charge a one-time fee for this service rather than making you sign up for ongoing payroll. It's totally worth considering if you want to make sure everything gets done correctly without having to learn all the details yourself.
One thing to watch out for - make sure you're using the CORRECT year W3 form! I made this mistake and it caused even more headaches. The 2023 W3 form is specifically for wages paid in 2023, not the year you're filing in. Also, if the SSA is asking you to submit these forms now, you might face penalties for late filing. You can request a penalty abatement by attaching a letter explaining why you filed late (reasonable cause). I did this when I messed up my housekeeper's forms and they waived most of the penalties.
So I'm getting down to the wire on my taxes and need to file an extension asap. I'm planning to use TurboTax for my actual tax return when I get around to it, but I'm wondering if I need to file the extension through TurboTax too? Or can I just use 1040.com or some other site to file the extension now, and then later do my actual taxes through TurboTax when I have all my documents organized? Does the IRS care if I use different services for the extension vs the actual filing? I'm super behind this year and just need the quickest option for the extension right now.
For what it's worth, I've been using different services for extensions vs filing for years. Usually do my extension through the free fillable forms on the IRS website since it's super basic, then use TaxAct for my actual return. Never had an issue. Just make sure wherever you file the extension gives you confirmation that it was accepted by the IRS.
Do you have to create an account with the IRS to use their free fillable forms for the extension? And is it actually free or do they try to upsell you?
You do need to create an account on the Free File Fillable Forms site, but it's pretty straightforward. It's completely free with no upsells - it's the official IRS program. It's basically just the raw forms without any guidance, so the extension form (4868) is simple enough, but some people find the complete tax forms overwhelming without software guidance. For just the extension though, it's a great free option.
Does anyone know if filing an extension affects your refund timing? Like if I'm owed money, will I get it later because I extended?
I'm in a bit of a dilemma with my small workplace (we only have 9 employees total). I'm currently pregnant and due in September. My boss is suggesting that when I go on maternity leave, I should file for unemployment and just state that I'm being "laid off" - without mentioning the pregnancy at all. They've assured me my position will be waiting for me when I return, and they'll give me a return date of December 15th. This seems sketchy to me. The company says they're suggesting this because our business has been down about 30% compared to last year, so they have a legitimate reason to temporarily "lay someone off" if unemployment officials ask questions. I went through something similar with my first child in 2023 - they initially told me to file for unemployment then too, but I was honest about having a baby and got denied. They ended up paying me $400 weekly for the 8 weeks I was gone. My biggest concern is that this feels like unemployment fraud. When I file taxes next year, I'd be showing unemployment benefits during the exact time I had a baby (whom I'll claim as a dependent). A couple friends I've talked to said this is definitely not legal. I really don't want to get my company in trouble as they've been supportive in other ways, but I also don't want to commit fraud. At the same time, I need some income during maternity leave. What should I do? Is what they're suggesting actually legal?
I'm a manager (not in your company) and what your employer is suggesting is absolutely wrong and illegal. We once had an owner suggest something similar and our entire management team had to step in and explain the serious legal consequences. Here's what your company SHOULD be doing: - Providing FMLA paperwork if they have enough employees to qualify - Looking into short-term disability options - Checking if your state has paid family leave (many do now) - Being honest about what they can and cannot provide Asking you to lie on government forms is never okay, and shows they're trying to exploit the system rather than properly supporting their employees.
Thank you for this perspective. Could you clarify about the FMLA part? I thought that only applied to companies with 50+ employees, and we only have 9 total. Are there similar protections for smaller businesses?
You're absolutely right about FMLA - it only applies to companies with 50+ employees, so your company is too small to be required to provide that protection. I should have been more clear. However, many states have enacted their own family leave laws that extend to smaller businesses. Depending on where you live, there might be state-specific protections even though you're not covered by federal FMLA. For example, some states require even small employers to provide job protection and/or paid leave. That's definitely worth looking into based on your specific location.
Wait, I'm confused about one thing - isn't your employer allowed to lay you off for business reasons? If their business really is down 30%, couldn't they legitimately lay you off and then you'd be eligible for unemployment? Or is it specifically because they're promising to hire you back that makes this fraud?
The fraud part is the intentional misrepresentation. If they're specifically timing a "layoff" to coincide with maternity leave and have already promised to bring her back at a specific date, that's not a true layoff - it's a planned temporary absence that they're trying to disguise as a layoff to shift costs to the state. A legitimate layoff would be based solely on business needs, not timed specifically to coincide with a planned medical event, and wouldn't come with a guaranteed rehire date.
Lucas Lindsey
I'm a tax attorney who has gone through this exact situation. The critical factor is whether the lawyer currently performs tasks that CPAs perform. If they're doing accounting, tax planning, financial analysis, etc. as part of their legal practice, then the CPA credential enhances existing skills rather than qualifying for a new profession. Schedule C deduction would likely be better than the Lifetime Learning Credit if they're self-employed and in a higher tax bracket. The LLC is limited to $2,000 with income phaseouts, while a Schedule C business deduction has no cap and reduces SE tax too.
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Nina Fitzgerald
AuthorThanks for sharing your experience! When you say Schedule C might be better, does that mean you believe the education would qualify as a legitimate business expense under T Reg 1.162-5(a) for someone in this situation?
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Lucas Lindsey
Yes, I believe it would qualify as a legitimate business expense in this specific case. The key is that T Reg 1.162-5(a) allows deductions for education that "maintains or improves skills required by the individual in his employment or other trade or business." If your client can document that they regularly perform accounting functions in their law practice (like tax planning, financial analysis for clients, etc.), then the CPA education enhances existing skills rather than qualifying them for a new profession. It's the actual tasks performed that matter, not the job title. I successfully took this position on my own return and have advised clients similarly without issues.
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Sophie Duck
Has anyone considered that this might be eligible for both the Lifetime Learning Credit AND a partial Schedule C deduction? If the courses have mixed purposes (partly for current business, partly for new credentials), you might be able to allocate a percentage to each based on course content.
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Austin Leonard
I don't think you can double-dip like that. IRS Publication 970 specifically says you can't claim an education credit and a business deduction for the same expense. You have to choose one or the other.
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