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One thing to consider that hasn't been mentioned - while there's no AMT implication when exercising underwater ISOs, there could be benefits to this strategy beyond just starting your holding period clock. If your company does a new 409A valuation in the future and the price goes up, exercising at today's lower strike price could save you money compared to waiting. You're essentially locking in your purchase price now, betting on future growth. Also, some companies have exercise windows when you leave - exercising gradually while employed can reduce the cash needed at separation. And depending on your company's stage, early exercise might have qualified small business stock (QSBS) implications that could potentially exclude large amounts of gain from taxes later.
Can you explain more about the QSBS angle? I've heard it mentioned before but don't fully understand how it works with ISOs or if there are timing considerations.
QSBS (Qualified Small Business Stock) is a potentially huge tax benefit that allows you to exclude up to 100% of capital gains when you sell qualifying stock (up to $10M or 10x your basis, whichever is greater). For it to qualify, you need to: 1) Acquire stock directly from a C-Corporation with less than $50M in gross assets when issued 2) Hold the stock for at least 5 years 3) The company must be in an active qualifying business (most tech companies qualify, but some industries like hospitality or finance are excluded) With ISOs, the timing matters because QSBS status is determined when you exercise, not when you're granted options. So exercising early while the company is still small enough could secure QSBS treatment, even if it grows beyond $50M in assets later. This is a major reason some people exercise underwater options - the potential long-term tax benefit can far outweigh the immediate cost.
A word of caution from someone who's been through this: just because you CAN exercise underwater options without AMT doesn't mean you SHOULD. I did this at my previous startup believing in their future - paid about $45k to exercise options below strike price. The company never recovered and eventually shut down. That money was completely lost. No tax deduction, no nothing. It's considered a capital loss when you sell or when the shares become worthless, but capital losses are limited to $3k per year against ordinary income (unlimited against capital gains). So while the AMT advice here is correct, make sure you're making this decision with eyes wide open about the company's actual prospects, not just hope. Exercise only what you can afford to lose entirely.
Ouch, that's brutal. Did you at least get to carry forward the losses to future years? I thought capital losses could be carried forward indefinitely.
Another option is to use the IRS Free File Fillable Forms. It's completely free no matter what credits you qualify for. The downside is that it's basically like filling out paper forms but on a computer - there's minimal guidance. But if you're fairly comfortable with taxes and just need to claim the Retirement Savings Credit, it might be worth looking into.
Does the IRS Free File Fillable Forms have any income limits? I make around $85k and often get locked out of the "free" options.
The Free File Fillable Forms have no income limits at all - they're available to everyone regardless of income. That's different from the IRS Free File Program partners (like TurboTax Free File, etc.) which typically have a $73,000 income limit. The trade-off is that Fillable Forms provide no guidance or calculations - you're basically just filling in digital versions of the paper forms. You need to know which forms to complete and how to do the calculations yourself. Form 8880 for the Retirement Savings Credit isn't terribly complicated though, especially if you're just claiming for yourself and spouse.
Just so you know, the Retirement Savings Contributions Credit phases out at higher income levels. If you're married filing jointly, it starts phasing out at $43,500 and completely disappears at $73,000 (for 2023 taxes). For singles, it phases out between $21,750-$36,500. Are you sure you actually qualify? If you're right on the edge, maybe double-check your AGI calculation. You might not actually qualify for the credit, which would solve the problem entirely.
Here's another wrinkle - if you took any distributions from your old IRA before the rollover, you should receive a Form 1099-R from the original trustee. THAT form you do need to report on your taxes, even if you rolled over the full amount to the new trustee within 60 days. But if it was a direct trustee-to-trustee transfer where you never touched the money, then no 1099-R should be issued.
It was definitely a direct transfer where I never received any funds personally - I just authorized the new bank to pull the funds from my old IRA. So sounds like I won't get a 1099-R either. But hypothetically, if someone DID receive a check and then deposited it in the new IRA within 60 days, how would they report that? Just curious for future reference.
In a direct transfer where you never received the funds, you're correct that you won't receive a 1099-R, and there's nothing to report on your tax return. If someone did receive a distribution check and then completed a 60-day rollover, they would receive a 1099-R from the first institution with distribution code G. They would need to report this on their tax return (generally on lines 4a and 4b of Form 1040), showing the full amount on line 4a but putting $0 on line 4b (since it's not taxable if properly rolled over). They would write "Rollover" next to line 4b to indicate why the taxable amount is zero. This ensures the IRS knows you received funds but properly rolled them over within the allowed timeframe.
I work at a tax preparation office and see this confusion all the time. Here's a quick guide: Form 5498: Shows contributions TO an IRA and account value Form 1099-R: Shows distributions FROM an IRA Trustee-to-trustee: Not reportable on your return (nothing to do) 60-day rollover: Reportable, but not taxable if done properly Most tax software will specifically ask if you had a rollover and guide you through it. Don't stress about the 5498 coming in May - it's designed that way intentionally!
You might also be dealing with a misclassification issue. Some small construction companies incorrectly treat employees as independent contractors. Did you get paystubs with tax withholdings or just straight cash payments? If they didn't withhold taxes, they might be trying to issue some weird hybrid form that doesn't make sense.
Make sure you file on time even if this isn't resolved! You can file Form 4852 as a substitute W-2 based on your best records of what you earned. If you have paystubs, bank deposits, or even a written record of hours worked Ć your hourly rate, use that to calculate your income. Then file an amended return later if needed when you get the correct W-2. Don't let their mistake cause you to miss the filing deadline!
Aria Khan
Former tax professional here. A few things to consider: 1. Make sure you create and keep copies of everything - your W2s showing withholdings, the audit letter, and any responses. 2. If you do what the auditor suggests, get it in writing from them (email is fine) that they acknowledge your withholdings will be applied after the case is closed. 3. You might qualify for penalty abatement under First Time Penalty Abatement if you haven't had other penalties in the past 3 years. This is separate from the audit and you'd request it after the audit is closed. 4. The strangest part of your situation is that the tax preparer should have included your withholdings on the original return. This makes me wonder if they made other serious errors too.
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Peyton Clarke
ā¢Thank you for this advice! The preparer definitely made multiple errors - that's why I got audited in the first place. I'll definitely ask for written confirmation about the withholdings. Do I need to wait until after the audit is completely closed to request the First Time Penalty Abatement, or can I mention it to the auditor now?
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Aria Khan
ā¢You should wait until the audit is fully closed before requesting First Time Penalty Abatement. Auditors typically don't handle penalty abatement requests during the audit process. Once everything is settled and you've paid the adjusted amount, then submit your penalty abatement request. If you've had a clean compliance history for the past 3 tax years (no penalties), you have an excellent chance of getting the penalties removed. Just be aware this only applies to certain penalties like failure-to-file and failure-to-pay, not all audit-related penalties.
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Everett Tutum
Did you sign the audit agreement yet? If not, you should specifically ask the auditor to note in the file that you had $18,500 in withholdings that should be applied to the $23,000 liability. While it's true another department handles this, having it documented by the auditor creates a paper trail.
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Sunny Wang
ā¢This is important advice. I've been through an audit where information "got lost" between departments. Always get everything in writing and create documentation trails.
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