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Has anyone mentioned the "ownership test" exception? I think there's something where if one spouse meets requirements and the other doesn't, you might still qualify. I know OP isn't talking about spouses, but there might be a similar provision for family members? Not sure tho.
That exception only applies to married couples filing jointly, not to parent/child situations. However, there is an important consideration here - if the mom was the sole owner before adding the child to the deed, the capital gain is calculated differently than if they purchased it together initially.
One thing that might help your situation is the "step-up in basis" rule if your mom passes away while you still own the property together. I know that's not something anyone wants to think about, but it's important to understand all your options given your difficult financial situation. Also, have you considered doing a 1031 exchange? If you're buying another property immediately, you might be able to defer the capital gains entirely. The new property would need to be of equal or greater value and you'd have strict timing requirements (45 days to identify replacement property, 180 days to close), but it could completely eliminate your current tax burden. Given that you mentioned you're planning to buy a smaller place outright, this might not work since you'd need to reinvest all the proceeds, but it's worth exploring with a tax professional. Sometimes restructuring the timing of purchases can save significant tax dollars. The unemployment and health issues you mentioned should definitely qualify for the unforeseen circumstances exception. Make sure you document everything - medical records, unemployment benefits, job loss documentation, etc. The IRS is generally sympathetic to these situations when properly documented.
The 1031 exchange is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure it would work in their situation since they specifically mentioned needing to downsize to a smaller, less expensive property. Don't you have to buy equal or greater value property for a 1031 to work? If they're selling a larger home to buy something smaller and cheaper, wouldn't that disqualify them from using this strategy? Also, regarding the step-up in basis - that's definitely something to keep in mind for estate planning, but given their immediate need to sell, it might not be practical advice for their current crisis. Though you're absolutely right about documenting everything for the unforeseen circumstances exception - that documentation could be crucial for maximizing their partial exemption.
This whole situation is exactly why the tax code needs to be simplified. It's ridiculous that getting married can actually increase your tax burden. I've been using a really thorough spreadsheet to project my taxes each year since getting married in 2021. I can share it if anyone wants it - it lets you compare Single vs MFJ vs MFS side by side so you can see the differences. The most important thing I learned is that withholding and filing status are completely separate things. You can have your employer withhold at the higher single rate even when you're married by completing your W4 correctly. This has saved me from owing at tax time.
I completely understand your frustration - this is such a common shock for newlyweds! The marriage penalty is real and hits hardest when both spouses earn similar incomes in certain brackets. Here's what's happening: When you were single, your income got its own trip through the tax brackets. Now married, even filing separately, the tax brackets for MFS are exactly half of the MFJ brackets - which often works out worse than the single brackets you used to enjoy. It's like the tax code is designed assuming married couples will always file jointly. A few practical things that might help: - Since you keep finances completely separate anyway, definitely run the numbers for both MFJ and MFS. Sometimes MFJ comes out better overall even if it feels wrong given your separate financial lives - The Child Tax Credit phases out at different income levels for MFS vs MFJ, which could be affecting your calculations - Consider having additional tax withheld from both your paychecks going forward (line 4c on the W4) to avoid this surprise next year The tax software is correct that you can't file as Single - your marital status on Dec 31st determines your filing options. But don't give up! Sometimes there are deductions or credits available to married filers that can help offset the penalty. Have you tried itemizing vs taking the standard deduction?
Does anyone know if tax loss harvesting software actually helps avoid these wash sale problems? I've been looking at some of the robo-advisors that claim to do this automatically and wondered if its worth it.
I've been using Wealthfront for about 2 years and their tax-loss harvesting has been pretty good at avoiding wash sales by using similar but not "substantially identical" securities. For example, they might sell a Vanguard S&P 500 ETF at a loss and buy an iShares S&P 500 ETF that performs similarly but isn't identical in the IRS's eyes. Just be careful if you're trading similar securities in other accounts they don't manage - that can still trigger wash sales they can't prevent.
I had a similar situation last year and it really threw me for a loop! Here's what I learned that might help: The wash sale disallowed amount ($3,400 in your case) doesn't mean you owe taxes on money you didn't make. It just means those specific losses can't be deducted this year. The key question is: are you still holding the replacement shares you bought within those 30-day windows? If yes, then those losses get added to your cost basis in those shares and you'll be able to claim them when you eventually sell (as long as you don't trigger another wash sale). If you actually sold everything by December 31st and your true economic loss for the year was $2,800, then that should be what shows up on your return. The problem might be that TurboTax isn't properly accounting for all your transactions or you might still be holding some replacement shares without realizing it. I'd recommend double-checking your year-end positions against all the trades that triggered wash sales. Sometimes people forget about partial sales or don't realize they're still holding shares that are preventing them from claiming the losses.
This is really helpful, thank you! I think I might be in exactly this situation where I'm still holding some replacement shares without realizing it. When you say "partial sales" - do you mean if I sold part of my position but kept some shares? Because I definitely did that with a few stocks. Would those remaining shares prevent me from claiming the losses on the portions I did sell?
Yes, exactly! If you sold part of your position but kept some shares, those remaining shares are considered "replacement shares" for wash sale purposes. This means the losses on the shares you sold cannot be claimed if you're still holding any portion of the same stock within that 30-day window. For example, if you sold 100 shares of XYZ at a loss and then bought back 50 shares within 30 days (or were already holding some), the entire loss on those 100 shares gets disallowed and added to the basis of the 50 shares you're holding. To actually claim those losses, you'd need to sell ALL of your XYZ shares and wait at least 31 days before buying back in. This is one of the trickiest parts of wash sale rules that catches a lot of people off guard!
Has anyone used TurboTax for reporting rental property sales? I'm in a similar situation and wondering if it handles depreciation recapture correctly or if I need to go to a professional.
I used TurboTax last year for my rental property sale and it was decent. It asked all the right questions about depreciation and guided me through the process, but I still felt like I needed to double-check everything. The interface for entering improvement costs was particularly clunky. If your situation is pretty straightforward, TurboTax can handle it. But if you have lots of improvements or a complicated ownership history, might be worth paying a CPA for at least a review.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is the Net Investment Income Tax (NIIT). Since you're married filing jointly with income around $83k, adding the $255k capital gain will likely push you over the $250k threshold for NIIT. This means you'll owe an additional 3.8% tax on the investment income portion that exceeds the threshold. So in addition to the regular capital gains tax and depreciation recapture we've discussed, you'd be looking at roughly 3.8% on about $88k of the gain (the amount over $250k threshold), which is another $3,340 or so. Also, don't forget about state taxes if you're in a state that taxes capital gains. This can add significantly to your total tax bill depending on where you live. Make sure you're setting aside enough money - between federal capital gains, depreciation recapture, NIIT, and potential state taxes, you could be looking at a substantially higher tax bill than just the federal calculations alone.
Wow, I completely forgot about the NIIT! That's a really important point. So if I understand correctly, with our $83k regular income plus the $255k capital gain, we'd have $338k total income, which means we'd owe the 3.8% NIIT on $88k (the amount over $250k). This is getting pretty complicated with all the different tax layers. Between the regular capital gains tax (~$31,500), depreciation recapture (~$11,250), and now NIIT (~$3,340), we're looking at close to $46k in federal taxes alone. And we're in California, so there will be state taxes on top of that. I think I definitely need to consult with a tax professional at this point. This is way more complex than I initially thought!
Maggie Martinez
One thing nobody's mentioned - if you're exercising underwater ISOs, make sure to check if your company might offer a re-pricing or exchange program. Some companies will cancel underwater options and reissue at a lower strike price, which might be better than exercising underwater options. Worth asking your HR or stock admin before making any moves.
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Alejandro Castro
ā¢That's a really good point. My previous employer did exactly this during the 2008 crash - cancelled all underwater options and reissued at a lower strike price. Saved a lot of employees from a bad situation. Definitely worth checking before exercising underwater.
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Paolo Conti
Great discussion everyone! I've been dealing with a similar underwater ISO situation and wanted to add one more consideration that helped me make my decision. Even though there's no immediate AMT impact for exercising underwater ISOs, you should also factor in your company's 10-year option expiration timeline. In my case, some of my underwater ISOs were granted 7+ years ago and were approaching expiration. Since there's no tax penalty for exercising underwater, I decided to exercise those older grants to at least convert them to actual shares before they expired worthless. This way, if the stock does recover in the next few years, I'll benefit from any appreciation above my strike price. The key insight for me was realizing that letting underwater options expire is a guaranteed loss, but exercising them (even at a loss) at least gives you a chance to recover if the company turns around. Obviously only do this with money you can afford to lose, but it's another angle to consider in your planning.
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Logan Chiang
ā¢That's a brilliant point about the expiration timeline! I hadn't considered that angle at all. So essentially you're trading cash (to exercise) for equity upside potential rather than just letting them expire worthless. How did you decide which underwater options to exercise if you had multiple grants at different strike prices? Did you prioritize the ones closest to expiration, or did you look at which strike prices were closest to current market value? I'm in a similar boat with some older grants that are pretty far underwater but approaching their 10-year mark.
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Dallas Villalobos
ā¢I prioritized based on a combination of factors, but expiration timeline was definitely the primary consideration. For grants that were within 12-18 months of expiring, I exercised regardless of how far underwater they were - better to own the shares than let them expire worthless. For grants with more time remaining, I focused on those with strike prices closest to current market value since they had the best chance of recovery. I also considered my overall portfolio diversification - didn't want to put too much cash into company stock even if the tax implications were favorable. One thing that really helped was creating a spreadsheet with all my grants showing strike price, current FMV, expiration date, and potential cash outlay. This let me model different scenarios and see which combinations made the most sense given my risk tolerance and available cash. The visual really helped clarify which grants were worth exercising vs. letting expire.
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