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One thing nobody's mentioned yet - there are different rules if your annual business income is over $27 million (average of last 3 years). If you're over that threshold, you're considered a "tax shelter" and subject to different bonus depreciation rules. Also, the bonus depreciation rules are different depending on when you placed the properties in service. The 2017 tax reform made big changes: - 100% for property placed in service after 9/27/2017 through 2022 - 80% for 2023 - 60% for 2024 - 40% for 2025 - 20% for 2026 - 0% after 2026 Make sure your CPA considers these phase-out periods!
Lol I wish I had the problem of $27 million in annual income from my STRs! But seriously, do you know if there's any minimum property value where cost segregation makes sense? I've got a small cabin I rent out that's only worth about $175k total.
The general rule of thumb is that cost segregation starts to make financial sense when the property value is $500k or higher, but it depends on several factors. For your $175k cabin, the study itself might cost between $3k-$5k, so you'd need to weigh that against the potential tax savings. However, if you purchased the cabin recently and could do a simplified cost segregation (like with one of the AI tools mentioned above), the economics might work out even at that lower value. Look at your cabin's components - if you have a lot of specialized systems (hot tub, custom lighting, high-end appliances, extensive landscaping), you might have more segregation opportunities than a basic property. You also need to consider your tax bracket - the higher your rate, the more valuable the accelerated deductions.
Be careful with DIY cost segregation! I tried to do my own for my rental last year based on some percentages I found online, and ended up getting audited. The IRS wanted to see a formal engineering report to back up my allocations. If you're going to do this, either use one of the specialized services mentioned or get a real cost segregation study from a qualified firm. The few thousand you'll spend on proper documentation is worth it compared to dealing with an audit and potential penalties.
I'm curious about this too! Also, what kind of documentation did they specifically ask for during the audit? I'm planning to do cost segregation on a few properties I built myself and want to make sure I have everything properly documented upfront. Did you end up having to pay penalties or just back taxes?
@Keith Davidson I m'really sorry to hear about your audit situation - that sounds stressful! This is exactly the kind of scenario I m'trying to avoid. Could you share what specific red flags might have triggered the audit? Was it the amounts you claimed, the way you allocated the depreciation, or something else? Also, for those of us considering cost segregation, what would you recommend as the minimum documentation to have in place before filing? I d'rather spend a bit more upfront on proper documentation than deal with audit headaches later.
One thing nobody mentioned yet: Form 1139! Instead of filing an amended return (1120X), C corporations can file Form 1139 "Corporation Application for Tentative Refund" for capital loss carrybacks. The BIG advantage is that the IRS processes these much faster - you can get your refund in 90 days instead of waiting 6+ months for an amended return to process. BUT - and this is crucial - Form 1139 must be filed within 12 months of the end of the tax year in which the loss occurred. For a 2022 loss, if your tax year ended December 31, 2022, you would have had to file Form 1139 by December 31, 2023. If you missed that window, then you're back to the amended return route.
Are you sure about using Form 1139 for capital loss carrybacks? I thought that was only for NOL (Net Operating Loss) carrybacks and not specifically for capital losses under USC 1212. I don't want the OP to file the wrong form and further complicate things.
You're absolutely right to question this! Form 1139 is indeed primarily for NOL carrybacks, not capital loss carrybacks under USC 1212. For capital loss carrybacks, corporations need to file Form 1120X (amended return) - there isn't a "quick refund" option like Form 1139 provides for NOLs. The 12-month deadline Norah mentioned would apply to NOL situations, but for capital loss carrybacks, you have the standard 3-year period from the filing date to amend the return. Given that Micah is dealing with a 2022 capital loss to carry back to 2021, the amended return route (1120X) is the correct approach here. Thanks for catching that - filing the wrong form would definitely create more complications and delays!
Just wanted to add a crucial timing consideration that could save you significant money: Since you're dealing with substantial penalties and interest that continue to accrue, I'd strongly recommend filing your Form 1120X as soon as possible - don't wait until closer to the October 2025 deadline. Even though you have until then to file the amended return, every month you delay means more penalties and interest accumulating on that $170,000 balance. Once you file the 1120X claiming the capital loss carryback, the IRS will stop the penalty clock on any tax liability that gets eliminated by the carryback. Also, make sure to include a detailed statement with your amended return explaining the capital loss carryback calculation and referencing the specific losses from your 2022 return. This helps the IRS processor understand exactly what you're doing and can prevent delays or requests for additional documentation. Given the complexity and dollar amounts involved, this definitely seems like a situation where professional help would be worthwhile to ensure everything is done correctly the first time.
This is excellent advice about not waiting! I'm actually in a similar situation with capital losses from 2023 that I want to carry back to 2021. One question - when you mention including a "detailed statement" with the 1120X, is there a specific format the IRS prefers for this explanation? I want to make sure I provide exactly what they need to process it smoothly without any back-and-forth requests for clarification. Also, has anyone had experience with how long the IRS actually takes to process these capital loss carryback amendments in practice? I know they say it can take 6+ months, but I'm wondering if the reality is longer given current processing delays.
anyone else notice that sometimes forms ask for "SSN" and other times they ask for "TIN" even though they want the same thing? super confusing when you're filling out tax forms. why can't they just use consistent terminology??
It's because TIN is like the umbrella term that covers different types of tax IDs. So forms that might be used by different types of taxpayers (individuals, businesses, nonresidents) will ask for "TIN" to cover all possibilities. Forms specifically for employees usually ask for SSN since that's most relevant.
Don't worry, this isn't a dumb question at all! I was in the exact same boat when I started my first "real" job. Your TIN (Taxpayer Identification Number) is most likely your Social Security Number if you're a U.S. citizen or permanent resident. The confusion comes from the fact that TIN is basically an umbrella term - it can refer to different types of tax ID numbers depending on your situation. For most regular employees like yourself, your 9-digit SSN serves as your TIN. You can double-check this by looking at any previous tax documents you might have (like a W-2 from a part-time job) - your SSN will be listed in the TIN field. So when your HR person asks for your TIN on the tax forms, just provide your SSN. It's totally normal to be confused by tax terminology - the IRS doesn't exactly make things crystal clear with their language choices!
This is such a helpful explanation! I'm also new to filing taxes and was wondering - if I've never had a job before and don't have any W-2s or previous tax documents, how can I verify that my SSN is correct? I have my Social Security card but want to make sure I'm not making any mistakes on these important forms. Should I just trust that the number on my card is definitely what I should use as my TIN?
I went through this exact same thing about 6 months ago! The notice looks super scary at first, but it's actually pretty straightforward once you get through to them. My biggest tip is to call right when they open at 7 AM - I got through in like 10 minutes vs the 2+ hours I waited when I called in the afternoon. Also, have your Social Security card handy because they asked for the exact issue date on mine, which I totally wasn't expecting. The agent was really nice and explained that they just flag returns that seem unusual (mine was because I moved states and had a big change in income). Whole process took maybe 25 minutes and my refund was processed within 5 days. You got this! πͺ
This is super helpful, thank you! π I was definitely freaking out when I first saw the notice - it looks so official and scary lol. The 7 AM tip is gold, I'm definitely going to try that. I never would have thought about having my Social Security card ready with the issue date either. Really appreciate you sharing your experience, it makes me feel way less anxious about the whole thing!
Just wanted to chime in with my experience! I got the 4883C notice about 3 months ago and was totally panicking at first. But honestly, once I actually called (took me like 4 tries to get through lol), the whole thing was way less scary than I expected. The IRS rep was super professional and walked me through everything step by step. They asked for basic stuff like my SSN, filing status, and some questions about my previous year's return. The call took about 15 minutes and my refund was released 3 days later! My advice: don't put it off like I did - just rip the bandaid off and call. And definitely try that early morning calling tip someone mentioned above. Good luck! π
Thanks for sharing your experience! π It's so reassuring to hear that the IRS reps are actually helpful and professional. I was definitely imagining some grumpy government worker being super difficult with me lol. The 3-day turnaround for your refund release is amazing too! I keep putting off making the call because I'm nervous, but you're right - I should just get it over with. Did they ask you anything weird or unexpected, or was it pretty much just the standard verification stuff?
Connor Murphy
One thing to remember that no one mentioned - if u don't have a business license and ur supposed to in ur city, the IRS might share info with local authorities which could lead to fines. Happened to my friend! Also don't forget about self-employment taxes (15.3%) on top of regular income tax. Those hit hard when ur not expecting them!
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Yara Nassar
β’Is that true about the IRS sharing info with local authorities? I thought tax info was confidential. I've been reselling stuff online without a license for 2 years now...
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Norah Quay
β’The IRS generally keeps tax information confidential, but there are exceptions. They can share information with state and local tax authorities under certain circumstances, especially when investigating tax compliance issues. However, they typically don't proactively report business license violations to local authorities. That said, if local authorities are already investigating unlicensed business operations, they might request information from the IRS as part of their investigation. The bigger risk is usually that operating without a required license could undermine your position if the IRS questions whether you're running a legitimate business versus just trying to deduct personal expenses. For reselling, you might want to check if your city/state requires a reseller's permit or business license once you hit certain income thresholds. Better to be proactive than deal with potential issues later!
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Ruby Blake
Great question! I was in a similar situation last year with my freelance graphic design work. The key thing to understand is that business expenses are deductible based on whether you're legitimately running a business, not whether you have a license. However, I'd strongly recommend getting that business license sooner rather than later. While it won't change your tax deductions, it protects you legally and shows the IRS you're serious about your business operations. Plus, at $23k in income, you're definitely past the "hobby" threshold. Make sure you're tracking that business use percentage accurately for mixed-use items like your laptop and internet. The IRS loves documentation, so keep detailed records of when and how you use these items for business. Also, don't forget to set aside money for self-employment taxes - they caught me off guard my first year! One last tip: consider opening a separate business bank account even without the license. It makes tracking expenses so much easier and creates a clear separation between personal and business finances.
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CyberNinja
β’This is really helpful advice! I'm curious about the separate business bank account - do you think that's necessary even for smaller side gigs? I've been mixing everything in my personal account and it's getting messy trying to sort out what's business vs personal when I'm doing my expense tracking. Also, did you find any banks that offer good business accounts for freelancers without requiring a business license upfront?
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