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Has anyone actually had the IRS audit them for this? I have a trucking company and a property management LLC. Both 100% owned by me. I've been running separate retirement plans for years with no issues.
You've been lucky so far, but this is exactly the kind of situation the IRS looks for in audits. I work for a TPA (third-party administrator) for retirement plans, and we see this scenario frequently. Once the IRS discovers this in an audit, you'd face: 1. Plan disqualification 2. Immediate taxation of all plan assets 3. Penalties and interest 4. Required retroactive contributions for excluded employees The costs can be astronomical. I'd strongly recommend getting this fixed before you're audited.
Your colleague is definitely wrong here. The controlled group rules under IRC Section 414(b) and (c) are crystal clear - if the same person owns 80% or more of multiple businesses, they form a controlled group for retirement plan purposes regardless of what industries they're in or where they're located. In your example with 100% ownership of both the dental practice and auto repair shop, these absolutely constitute a brother-sister controlled group. The owner cannot set up a retirement plan for just the auto shop without including eligible employees from the dental practice in the nondiscrimination testing. The IRS specifically designed these rules to prevent exactly what your colleague is suggesting - cherry-picking which employees to cover based on business profitability or convenience. The fact that the businesses are unrelated operationally is completely irrelevant to the controlled group determination. I'd recommend showing your colleague the actual code sections or getting a definitive ruling from a qualified ERISA attorney. This is one of those areas where being wrong can result in massive penalties and plan disqualification.
This is really helpful clarification! I'm new to business ownership and honestly had no idea these controlled group rules even existed. I was actually considering setting up a second LLC for a side consulting business and was planning to do separate retirement plans. Sounds like I need to understand these rules before I make any moves. Are there any good resources you'd recommend for learning more about controlled groups and retirement plan requirements? I want to make sure I don't accidentally create compliance issues down the road.
I went through this exact situation with my amended return last year! The key thing to understand is that there's no separate "amended return transcript" - everything shows up on your regular Account Transcript on the IRS website. You'll want to log into irs.gov, go to "Get Transcript Online" and pull your Account Transcript for the tax year you amended (so if you amended your 2022 return, look at the 2022 Account Transcript). Look for transaction code TC 971 which means they received your amended return, and TC 977 which means it's been processed. The "Where's My Amended Return" tool is honestly pretty useless - it rarely updates and gives minimal info. Unfortunately, the processing times right now are brutal - despite the official 16-week timeline, most people are waiting 6-8 months or even longer. I know it's incredibly frustrating, especially when you're anxious about the status, but at least checking the Account Transcript will give you a clearer picture of where things actually stand in the process.
This is such a helpful breakdown, thank you! I'm dealing with the same situation and had no idea about the difference between Account Transcript vs Return Transcript. Just checked mine and found the TC 971 code from June but no TC 977 yet - at least now I know what to look for instead of just refreshing that useless "Where's My Amended Return" page every day. The 6-8 month wait time is honestly shocking though, especially when TurboTax made it seem like it would be much faster. Really glad I found this thread because the IRS website explanations are so confusing!
I'm dealing with a very similar situation right now! Filed my amended return through TurboTax in April and have been going crazy trying to track the status. After reading through all these responses, I finally understand that I need to check my Account Transcript on the IRS website instead of relying on that useless "Where's My Amended Return" tool. Just logged in and found the TC 971 code showing they received it, but no TC 977 yet which means it's still processing. The 6-8 month timeline everyone is mentioning is absolutely insane - I had no idea it would take this long when I filed! TurboTax definitely doesn't prepare you for the reality of amended return processing times. Thanks to everyone who explained the transaction codes - this has been way more helpful than anything I could find on the official IRS site. Guess I'll just have to be patient and keep checking that Account Transcript every few weeks. Never using TurboTax for amendments again though!
Great discussion here! As someone who runs a small HVAC business with multiple work trucks, I learned the hard way about depreciation recapture rules. One additional consideration nobody's mentioned yet: if you're planning to eventually sell or trade in the truck, you'll face recapture anyway under Section 1245 when you dispose of it, regardless of business use percentage. So the "convert to personal use" strategy really only works if you plan to keep the truck until it's fully depreciated or worthless. I made the mistake of taking full Section 179 on a truck in year 1, then selling it in year 3 when I upgraded my fleet. Had to recapture about $8,000 as ordinary income even though I maintained 100% business use the entire time I owned it. The recapture amount was the difference between what I originally deducted and the depreciation I would have been allowed under regular MACRS. For anyone considering this strategy, make sure you're truly committed to keeping that vehicle long-term and that converting it to personal use actually makes sense for your situation.
This is such an important point that I wish I had known earlier! I'm just starting my landscaping business and was planning to take full Section 179 on a used truck I'm buying. Your experience with the trade-in recapture is exactly the kind of real-world insight that helps avoid expensive mistakes. So if I understand correctly, even if I keep business use above 50% the whole time, I'll still face recapture if I sell or trade the truck before it's fully depreciated? That changes my whole depreciation strategy. Maybe I should go with regular MACRS like Sophie suggested, especially since I'll probably want to upgrade to a newer truck in a few years as the business grows. Thanks for sharing the specific dollar amounts - it really helps put the potential impact in perspective!
This thread has been incredibly helpful! I'm a CPA who specializes in small business tax planning, and I want to add some clarity on a few points that have come up. First, regarding the original question about non-listed property trucks - you're absolutely correct that recapture applies even to vehicles over 6,000 lbs GVW when business use drops below 50%. The "non-listed property" designation only exempts these trucks from luxury auto limits and certain recordkeeping requirements, not from recapture rules under Section 179(d)(10). Second, I want to emphasize Natalie's excellent point about Section 1245 recapture on disposition. Many business owners don't realize that selling/trading the vehicle triggers recapture regardless of business use percentage. This is completely separate from the business use recapture we've been discussing. For Austin's original scenario, here are the key considerations: - Taking maximum depreciation in year 1 then switching to personal use in year 2 WILL trigger recapture - The amount would be the excess of accelerated depreciation over what regular MACRS would have allowed - This applies even if you never sell the truck My recommendation for most clients in similar situations is to either commit to maintaining >50% business use long-term with proper documentation, or use regular MACRS depreciation for the flexibility it provides. The tax savings from acceleration often aren't worth the compliance headaches and recapture risks for vehicles that might have changing usage patterns.
Thank you Diego for that comprehensive breakdown! As someone new to business ownership, this whole depreciation recapture topic feels overwhelming but your explanation really clarifies the key decision points. I'm curious about one practical aspect - when you mention "proper documentation" for maintaining >50% business use, what specific records do successful clients typically maintain beyond just mileage logs? Owen mentioned photos of equipment and client invoices, but I'd love to know what a CPA considers bulletproof documentation in case of an audit. Also, for someone just starting out with their first business truck, would you recommend establishing a formal written policy about vehicle use to help support the business percentage claim? I want to make sure I'm setting myself up correctly from day one rather than scrambling to reconstruct records later.
I went through this exact same situation with my cabinet-making business last year! I purchased a 16x32 portable workshop building and was able to successfully claim the full amount under Section 179. The key documentation that saved me was keeping all the manufacturer specifications that clearly stated the building was designed to be "relocatable" and "non-permanent." I also took photos showing how it sits on concrete blocks rather than a poured foundation. My tax preparer initially wasn't sure about the classification, but after reviewing the manufacturer's documentation and IRS Publication 946, we determined it qualified as personal property since it could be moved without substantial damage to the structure. One tip - make sure you get a clear invoice that describes it as a "portable" or "relocatable" building rather than just a generic "building" description. This helped establish the intent and design purpose when I filed my return. The $28,000 deduction made a huge difference for my business cash flow that year instead of spreading it out over decades of depreciation!
This is really helpful! I'm in a similar situation and wondering - did you have to provide any additional documentation to the IRS beyond the manufacturer specs and photos? Also, how long did it take for your return to be processed? I'm worried about potential delays or audits when claiming such a large Section 179 deduction.
For anyone still following this thread, I want to share my recent experience since it directly relates to the original question about portable woodworking buildings and Section 179. I just completed my 2024 tax filing after purchasing a 14x36 portable workshop building last spring. After reading through all the helpful advice in this thread, I was able to successfully claim the full $31,500 cost under Section 179. Here's what made the difference in my case: 1. The manufacturer's spec sheet clearly labeled it as "portable" and "relocatable" 2. I documented that it sits on adjustable jack stands, not a permanent foundation 3. All utility connections (electrical panel, compressed air lines) are designed to be easily disconnected 4. I kept the transport/delivery photos showing it being moved by truck My return was processed normally with no additional questions or delays. The immediate deduction was a game-changer for my small furniture-making business cash flow compared to depreciating it over 30+ years. One thing I learned is that the IRS doesn't have a specific "portable building" category - they evaluate each case based on the permanence factors others have mentioned. Having clear documentation that supports the "personal property" classification rather than "real property" is crucial. Hope this helps others in similar situations!
Thanks for sharing your successful experience, Mateo! This is exactly the kind of real-world example I was hoping to find. I'm curious about one detail - when you mention the transport/delivery photos, did you specifically request those from the delivery company, or did they provide them automatically? I'm planning my purchase soon and want to make sure I have all the right documentation from day one. Also, did your accountant have any concerns about the size of the Section 179 deduction relative to your total business income?
Raul Neal
I'd definitely start by checking your credit report for any accounts you don't recognize, but also look through old paperwork or emails from previous employers. Sometimes companies will automatically enroll employees in small life insurance policies or retirement savings programs that you might not remember signing up for. Another thing to check - do you have any family members who might have opened an account on your behalf years ago? Parents sometimes set up small savings or insurance policies for their kids that mature later. The $390 amount is pretty typical for something like a small whole life insurance policy cash value or a forgotten 401k rollover. When you call Nationwide, ask them specifically what type of account it was (401k, IRA, insurance contract, etc.) and when it was opened. They should be able to tell you the original source even if you don't remember it. Don't panic about identity theft until you rule out these more common explanations first.
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Lilly Curtis
ā¢This is really solid advice. I'm dealing with something similar right now and you're absolutely right about checking old employer paperwork. I found out I had a tiny 401k from a part-time job I worked in college that I completely forgot about - the company automatically enrolled everyone after 90 days and I only worked there for like 6 months. The family angle is interesting too. My mom mentioned she had set up some kind of savings bond or small policy for me when I was born that I never knew about. Might be worth asking parents or grandparents if they remember opening anything in your name, especially if you've moved addresses since then and might have missed notifications about it maturing.
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Ravi Patel
This is definitely confusing, but you're not alone in this situation! A few things to consider that might help solve the mystery: First, check what distribution code is in Box 7 of your 1099-R - this will tell you exactly what type of distribution it was. Code "1" means early distribution, "4" means death benefit, "G" means direct rollover, etc. Each code points to a specific scenario. Second, the $390 amount suggests this could be from a small employer-sponsored benefit you forgot about. Many companies automatically enroll employees in basic life insurance (often 1x your salary) or contribute small amounts to retirement plans. When you leave the company, these small balances sometimes get distributed years later due to administrative costs. Also worth noting - if you've moved recently, you might have missed earlier correspondence from Nationwide explaining the distribution. They're legally required to send notices before distributing funds, but if it went to an old address, you wouldn't have seen it. I'd recommend calling Nationwide's customer service line and asking them to look up the account history. They can tell you when the account was opened, what type it was, and what employer or entity originally set it up. Don't worry about reporting the income on your taxes even if you never received the money - the IRS just needs to see that you're aware of the distribution.
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