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Ask the community...

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Ella Knight

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For anyone filing internationally, ALWAYS keep copies of EVERYTHING you send to the IRS! I learned this the hard way when my return got "lost" after being delivered. When I finally got through to the IRS, they had no record of receiving it even though tracking showed delivery. I had to resend all my documents with proof of the original delivery date. The whole process took 5 months before I got my refund. Paper returns from overseas are definitely not processed with any urgency.

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This happened to me too! Did you have to pay any penalties because of their mistake? My return was delivered according to USPS tracking, but when I finally reached someone at the IRS, they said they never received it and I might face late filing penalties!

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International returns are definitely a headache! I had a similar experience filing from the UK last year. The Where's My Refund tool on IRS.gov is 100% legitimate and safe - it's the official IRS website and they absolutely need your SSN to verify your identity before showing your refund status. One thing I learned: the tracking updates for international returns are really sparse. Mine showed "Return Received" for literally 10 weeks before suddenly jumping to "Refund Approved." Don't panic if you don't see movement for months - that's unfortunately normal for paper returns from abroad. Also, make sure you're checking the tool with the exact refund amount you claimed on your return. Even being off by a dollar will prevent it from finding your information. The system is pretty picky about matching all three pieces: SSN, filing status, and exact refund amount. Hang in there - $3,800 is definitely worth the wait, even if the process is frustrating!

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Malik Johnson

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anyone else notice the treasury checks coming faster this year? Got mine in 3 days flat

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facts! they must have upgraded their systems or sumthin

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Rosie Harper

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Same situation here! April 1st mail date on my transcript too. From what I've seen in this community, most people get their checks 3-5 days after the mail date. The USPS informed delivery tip from @Javier Torres is clutch - you'll literally see a photo of your check in the mail before it arrives. Takes some of the anxiety away knowing it's actually coming!

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Tony Brooks

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Thanks @Rosie Harper! That's really reassuring to hear. I just signed up for informed delivery after seeing Javier's suggestion - hopefully that'll help me track it better. The waiting is honestly the worst part of this whole process šŸ˜…

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Amended return shows negative account balance of $1,789 - What does code 291 ($2,592 tax reduction) mean for my refund status?

Finally seeing some movement on my amended return that I submitted in September 2024. Been checking my transcript religiously for months with no updates until now. The original amendment was forwarded for processing in September, then there was some internal amendment in November 2024 that I had nothing to do with. Now my transcript shows a new entry from Feb 17, 2025 with code 291 "Reduced or removed prior tax assessed" for $2,592.00. My account transcript shows: ACCOUNT BALANCE: -1,789.00 ACCRUED INTEREST: 0.00 AS OF: Mar. 17, 2025 ACCRUED PENALTY: 0.00 AS OF: Mar. 17, 2025 ACCOUNT BALANCE PLUS ACCRUALS (this is not a payoff amount): -1,789.00 My filing information shows: EXEMPTIONS: 03 FILING STATUS: Head of Household ADJUSTED GROSS INCOME: 55,804.00 TAXABLE INCOME: 35,004.00 TAX PER RETURN: 3,300.00 SE TAXABLE INCOME TAXPAYER: 0.00 SE TAXABLE INCOME SPOUSE: 0.00 TOTAL SELF EMPLOYMENT TAX: 0.00 RETURN DUE DATE OR RETURN RECEIVED DATE (WHICHEVER IS LATER): Apr. 15, 2024 PROCESSING DATE: May 13, 2024 The transaction history is quite long: TRANSACTIONS CODE EXPLANATION OF TRANSACTION CYCLE DATE AMOUNT 150 Tax return filed 20241705 05-13-2024 $3,300.00 32221-450-16071-4 806 W-2 or 1099 withholding 04-15-2024 -$1,786.00 766 Credit to your account 04-15-2024 -$4,751.00 766 Credit to your account 04-15-2024 -$5,297.00 810 Refund freeze 04-25-2024 $0.00 971 Amended tax return or claim 10-14-2024 $0.00 forwarded for processing 977 Amended return filed 10-14-2024 $0.00 43277-690-02699-4 971 Amended tax return or claim 12-31-2024 $0.00 forwarded for processing 977 Amended return filed 12-31-2024 $0.00 83277-422-55125-5 767 Reduced or removed credit to your 04-15-2024 $5,297.00 account 767 Reduced or removed credit to your 04-15-2024 $4,751.00 account 766 Credit to your account 04-15-2024 -$711.00 291 Reduced or removed prior tax 03-17-2025 -$2,592.00 assessed 19254-452-05775-5 I can see there was originally a refund freeze (code 810) placed on 04-25-2024. Then I submitted my amended return which was forwarded for processing on 10-14-2024. Then somehow there was another amended return filed on 12-31-2024 that I didn't initiate. It looks like they reduced some credits earlier (the two code 767 entries for $5,297.00 and $4,751.00), but now they've reduced my tax assessed by $2,592.00 (code 291). My account balance shows -$1,789.00 but still no refund date. Can anyone tell me what this negative balance means and when I might see my refund? Does the -$1,789.00 mean I'm getting that amount back? Will they issue this automatically or do I need to call the IRS about it?

You're absolutely on the right track! The negative account balance of -$1,789 is exactly what you'll be getting back as a refund. That code 291 reducing your tax by $2,592 means the IRS has accepted your amended return and adjusted your tax liability downward - which is great news! The internal amendment from November that you didn't file is completely normal. The IRS often processes complex amendments in multiple stages, so they'll create internal adjustments as they work through your changes. Nothing to worry about there. Now you're just waiting for the final step - code 846 "Refund Issued" to appear on your transcript with a specific date. Once that shows up, your money will be direct deposited on that exact date. Based on similar cases I've seen, this usually happens within 1-3 weeks after the 291 code appears. Keep checking your transcript weekly (daily checking will just drive you crazy!). After 5 months of waiting, you're finally in the home stretch. The hardest part is over - the IRS has processed your amendment and approved your refund. Now it's just a matter of the system generating that final 846 code.

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This is super helpful! I'm new to dealing with amended returns and all these codes have been so confusing. It's really reassuring to know that the -$1,789 balance is actually what I'm getting back. I was worried it meant something was wrong with my return! I'll definitely stick to checking weekly instead of daily - you're right that checking constantly just makes the waiting worse. Thank you for explaining about the 846 code too. I'll be watching for that next. After 5 months of stress and confusion, it feels amazing to finally understand what's happening and know I'm almost done with this process! šŸ™

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Jamal Wilson

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That negative account balance is exactly what you want to see! The -$1,789 means the IRS owes you that amount. I went through something very similar last year with my amended return - saw the 291 code appear and then waited about 2.5 weeks before the 846 refund issued code showed up. The internal amendment from November is totally normal - the IRS often processes amendments in stages internally. Nothing you need to worry about there. One thing to keep in mind: even though your account shows the credit balance, there could still be systemic holds or reviews happening in the background. The 810 refund freeze from April might still need to be fully cleared, but often the amendment processing takes care of those automatically. Your next step is watching for code 846 with a specific date. Once that appears, you can count on getting your money on that exact date if you have direct deposit set up. The waiting is brutal but you're definitely in the final phase now!

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Jibriel Kohn

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This is so helpful to hear from someone who's been through the same process! The 2.5 week timeline after the 291 code gives me hope that I won't be waiting much longer. I had no idea that the internal amendment processing could automatically clear other holds like that 810 freeze - that makes me feel a lot better about not getting any letters about it. I'm definitely going to focus on watching for that 846 code now. Thank you for the reassurance that I'm finally in the final phase after all these months of uncertainty! šŸ¤ž

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Evelyn Kim

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I went through this exact same process last year when I incorporated my mobile game development company in Ontario. The W-8BEN-E form was definitely intimidating at first, but once I understood the key classifications, it became much clearer. A few additional tips that helped me: 1. Make sure you're clear on your entity type classification in Part I - for a standard Canadian corporation, you'll typically select "Corporation" 2. In Part II (Disregarded Entity), you'll likely leave this blank since your corporation isn't a disregarded entity 3. For Part III (Claim of Tax Treaty Benefits), be very specific about citing "Article 12 of the Canada-United States Income Tax Convention" and state the rate as 0% for royalties 4. Don't forget to sign and date the form! I actually forgot this on my first submission and had to resubmit The key thing to remember is that App Store revenue for digital products is generally treated as royalties under the tax treaty, not business profits. This distinction is crucial for getting the right withholding rate. Good luck with your incorporation transition! It's definitely worth getting it right the first time to avoid delays with your App Store payments.

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This is incredibly helpful! I'm just starting this process and your breakdown of each section makes it so much clearer. Quick question - when you mention citing "Article 12 of the Canada-United States Income Tax Convention" in Part III, do you need to include any additional explanation beyond just stating the article and 0% rate? Also, did Apple accept your form right away after you got all these details correct, or did you still run into any issues during their review process?

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Carmen Diaz

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@Evelyn Kim s'breakdown is spot on! For Part III, you typically don t'need extensive additional explanation beyond citing the specific article and rate. However, I d'recommend adding a brief statement like Canadian "corporation deriving royalties from licensing of software applications to" clarify the nature of your business activity. One thing I learned the hard way is to also include a statement about meeting the Limitation on Benefits provisions - something like Entity "meets ownership and base erosion test under Article 29A as all shareholders are Canadian residents. This" helped me avoid a rejection that delayed my previous submission by weeks. Apple s'review process has gotten much stricter lately. Even with everything filled out correctly, they sometimes request additional documentation to verify your corporate status, so make sure you have your Certificate of Incorporation and any other corporate documents easily accessible.

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CosmicCowboy

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I just went through this exact process a few months ago when I transitioned my indie game studio to a corporation! The W-8BEN-E definitely feels overwhelming at first, but it's much more straightforward once you understand the key points. For Canadian corporations selling on the App Store, here's what I learned: **Income Classification**: Your App Store revenue is classified as royalties, not business profits. This is because you're licensing your software to Apple for distribution, making it royalty income under Article 12 of the Canada-US tax treaty. **Key Form Sections**: - Part I: Standard corporation info (make sure your legal name matches exactly with your incorporation docs) - Part III: Claim treaty benefits under Article 12, enter 0% withholding rate - Part XXV: Most app dev corps qualify as "Active NFFE" since you're actively running a business **Critical Details**: - Include your Canadian Business Number in the foreign tax ID field - In the Limitation on Benefits section, mention that you meet the ownership test (since all shareholders are Canadian) - Don't forget to actually sign and date the form! The treaty benefit is huge - it reduces your US withholding from 30% down to 0% for royalties. Having all Canadian shareholders actually helps because it makes the Limitation on Benefits provisions easier to satisfy. Apple typically reviews these within 5-7 business days. If they reject it, they'll usually tell you exactly what needs to be fixed. Just make sure every detail matches your corporate documents perfectly. Hope this helps! The corporate structure is definitely worth it for the tax benefits and liability protection.

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18 I learned this the hard way - claiming exempt when you don't qualify is a red flag that can trigger an IRS audit. I tried something similar a few years back and got a letter from the IRS questioning my exempt status. Had to provide documentation proving I qualified (which I didn't), and ended up paying penalties plus interest. The safe harbor rule mentioned earlier is your best bet. You can use Form 1040-ES to calculate your required payments, or there's a simpler approach: take last year's total tax liability and divide by the number of pay periods. That's roughly what you need withheld per paycheck to avoid penalties. Also consider that while 2.5% APY sounds good, the underpayment penalty rate is currently around 8% annually. So even if you could legally claim exempt, you'd need to find an investment paying more than 8% just to break even on the penalty - and that's assuming you don't make any calculation errors.

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Raj Gupta

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That's a really important point about the audit risk that I hadn't considered. The underpayment penalty being around 8% really puts things in perspective - you'd need to find some pretty high-risk investments just to break even, which defeats the whole purpose of a "safe" savings strategy. Thanks for sharing your experience with the IRS letter, that sounds like a headache I definitely want to avoid.

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Sophie Duck

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I'd strongly recommend against claiming exempt unless you truly qualify. As others have mentioned, you can only legally claim exempt if you had no tax liability last year AND expect none this year - most people don't meet this criteria. A safer approach is to use the IRS withholding calculator or work with a tax professional to optimize your W-4. You can reduce your withholding to the minimum needed to avoid penalties (typically 90% of current year tax or 100% of prior year tax) and invest the difference. Keep in mind that even with a 2.5% APY, you're looking at maybe $200-400 in extra interest for most people, but underpayment penalties can easily exceed $500-1000. The risk/reward just doesn't make sense when there are legitimate ways to optimize your withholding without breaking tax laws. If you really want to maximize your money throughout the year, consider increasing 401k contributions or HSA contributions instead - these actually reduce your tax liability rather than just shifting when you pay it.

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This is exactly the kind of balanced advice I was looking for. You're absolutely right that the risk/reward doesn't add up when you factor in potential penalties. The idea of increasing 401k or HSA contributions instead is brilliant - actually reducing tax liability rather than just playing timing games with payments. I think I was getting too focused on the interest earnings and not considering all the ways this could backfire. Thanks for the reality check!

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