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Just want to add a real-world data point. I run an S-Corp and tried skipping salary for 2 years while reinvesting everything. Got audited and ended up owing back payroll taxes, penalties, and interest on what the IRS determined a "reasonable salary" would have been. They basically looked at what similar professionals in my field made and said I should have been paying myself (and paying payroll taxes on) at least that amount. The audit was triggered because I was actively involved (filed as full-time on my corporate docs) but had zero W-2 wages. They said this was an immediate red flag. Cost me way more in the end than if I'd just taken a salary from the beginning.
omg this is exactly what im afraid of. did u have any way to challenge what they said was "reasonable"? like what if their number was way too high compared to what ur business could afford?
You can challenge their determination, but you need solid documentation to back it up. I tried arguing that my business couldn't afford the salary they calculated, but they said that's not their concern - if I'm working full-time in the business, I need to be paid like any other employee would be. What hurt my case was that I had no documentation showing I tried to determine a reasonable salary or any business justification for taking zero compensation. If you're in this situation now, start documenting everything - your hours worked, comparable salaries in your area/industry, and your business's financial constraints. Having that paper trail makes a huge difference if you get audited. The IRS does consider the company's ability to pay, but only to some extent. They won't let you pay zero just because you want to reinvest profits.
I'm dealing with this exact same situation right now as a new S-Corp owner! Reading through all these responses has been super helpful, especially the real audit experience from Daniel. It sounds like the consensus is pretty clear - if you're actively working in the business, you need to pay yourself a reasonable salary regardless of distributions. What I'm taking away is that I need to start documenting everything now: my hours worked, what comparable positions pay in my industry/area, and my business financial situation. Even if I can't afford a full market-rate salary right now during my growth phase, having that documentation seems crucial for justifying whatever salary I do set. Has anyone found good resources for researching what "reasonable compensation" actually means for their specific role and industry? I'm trying to figure out if there are standard databases or surveys that the IRS typically references during audits.
For researching reasonable compensation, I've found a few reliable sources that the IRS tends to reference. The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) Occupational Employment and Wage Statistics is a good starting point - it's free and breaks down salaries by occupation and geographic area. PayScale, Glassdoor, and Salary.com can also provide industry-specific data, though you want to focus on the more comprehensive reports rather than just user-submitted data. The IRS also looks at what's called the "five-factor test" when determining reasonable compensation: 1) training and experience, 2) duties and responsibilities, 3) time and effort devoted to the business, 4) dividend history, and 5) payments to non-shareholder employees. Documenting how you measure up on each of these factors can really strengthen your position. One tip from my experience - don't just look at job titles, but actually match the duties you perform. If you're doing CEO work but also handling marketing and operations, you might justify a higher salary than just a standard "small business owner" rate. The key is being able to defend your reasoning with solid data.
its ridiculous we have to wait so long for OUR money. the govmt takes it instantly but takes forever to give it back smh
facts šÆ and they charge interest when we owe them but pay us pennies when they hold our money
@Dylan Hughes for transcript access, try using ID.me verification on the IRS website - it's usually more reliable than the standard login. You can also call the automated transcript line at 1-800-908-9946 if the website keeps giving errors. The transcript will show cycle codes and DDD (direct deposit date) if one has been issued for your refund. Way more detailed info than the basic "Where's My Amended Return" tool.
Thanks for the tip! I'll try ID.me - had no idea there was a separate transcript phone line either. Really helpful info š
Don't forget to consider state taxes too! I learned the hard way that some states (looking at you, New Jersey) have different rules for capital gains offsets than the federal government. I had stock losses I used to offset real estate gains, but NJ limited how much I could offset.
Great discussion here! Just wanted to add a practical tip from my own experience - make sure you have good documentation for all your losses, especially if you're dealing with multiple asset types like stocks and real estate. I had a similar situation last year where I used stock losses to offset real estate gains, but during my tax prep I realized I was missing some key documents like the adjusted basis calculations for my rental property and detailed records of some stock transactions. The IRS can be pretty strict about substantiating your losses, so having everything organized upfront saves a lot of headaches. Also worth noting that if you're using a tax professional, bring all this documentation to them early in the tax season. The interaction between different types of capital gains and losses can get complex, especially when depreciation recapture is involved, and they'll need time to work through the calculations properly.
I'm dealing with a similar situation! My amended return shows "completed" from October but still no refund. What I've learned is that there can be additional processing delays even after the completion status. A few things to try: 1) Check your bank account info on file - sometimes refunds get delayed if there's an issue with direct deposit details, 2) Look for any IRS notices in the mail - they might have sent something explaining the delay, 3) When you do call that number, try calling right at 7am EST for shorter wait times. Also worth noting that amended returns can take longer during tax season due to increased volume. Don't give up - you're entitled to that refund!
QuantumQuasar
One thing nobody's mentioned - distributions aren't subject to payroll taxes, but they ARE subject to income tax. The tax advantage of an S-corp comes from paying reasonable salary (subject to both income + payroll tax) and taking remaining profits as distributions (subject to only income tax). But you still need to pay yourself something as W-2 wages.
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Zainab Omar
ā¢I thought S-corp distributions were tax-free? That's what my buddy who has an LLC told me. Now I'm confused.
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QuantumQuasar
ā¢Your buddy is confusing two different concepts. S-corp distributions aren't tax-free - they're just not subject to self-employment/payroll taxes (saving ~15.3%). You still pay income tax on distributions up to your basis in the company. What your friend might be thinking of is that C-corporations have "double taxation" (corporate tax + dividend tax), while S-corps have "pass-through taxation" with income only taxed once. But that single taxation still happens - the profits pass through to your personal return whether distributed or not.
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QuantumQuester
I've been running an S-corp for 5 years and went through this exact confusion early on. The bottom line is you absolutely cannot just pay the tax obligations without actually distributing salary to yourself - that's considered tax evasion by the IRS. Here's what I learned the hard way: "reasonable compensation" means you must receive actual W-2 wages for services performed, run through normal payroll with proper withholdings. The IRS specifically looks for S-corp owners trying to avoid payroll taxes by skipping salary altogether. My recommendation: determine a reasonable salary based on what you'd pay someone else to do your job, then take that as actual payroll. Everything above that reasonable amount can stay in the business as retained earnings or be distributed later. Don't try to game the system - the audit risk isn't worth it, and the penalties can be severe if they reclassify your distributions as wages subject to back payroll taxes plus interest.
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