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Just to add another perspective - I've done S-corp returns for 5 years now and have always included Schedules L and M-1 regardless of size. Why? Because they tell the story of your business financially. Even though not required, they show what assets/debts the business holds and reconcile book/tax differences. This has been super helpful documentation when getting business loans later. Plus, if you ever have an audit, having these already completed saves headaches. If you're using decent tax software, it really isn't much extra work to complete them. Better to have too much documentation than too little in my experience.
Do you think it creates any additional audit risk to file these when not required? I've heard conflicting things about "poking the bear" with extra schedules vs just filing the minimum required.
In my experience, filing these additional schedules doesn't increase audit risk - if anything, it may reduce it. The IRS is generally more interested in returns that appear to be hiding information rather than providing extra documentation. The audit selection process focuses primarily on income discrepancies, unusual deductions, and statistical anomalies compared to similar businesses. Simply providing a more complete financial picture with Schedules L and M-1 doesn't typically trigger additional scrutiny. In the rare case you do get selected for audit, having this documentation already prepared actually makes the process smoother since you've already organized and reported the information they'd likely request anyway.
Super practical advice for a one-person S-corp like yours: if you're using tax software like TaxAct Business or H&R Block Business, they'll walk you through these schedules pretty easily. The balance sheet info for Schedule L is basically just what you own and what you owe at beginning/end of year. M-1 reconciles book income vs tax income differences. Takes maybe 15 extra minutes but gives you better documentation. I keep a simple spreadsheet tracking my assets, liabilities and equity throughout the year which makes filling these out a breeze. Might be worth starting that practice even if you don't file the forms this year!
That's a great suggestion about tracking with a spreadsheet. Do you have a template or specific format you follow? I'm using QuickBooks but honestly not sure I've set it up correctly for tracking the balance sheet stuff properly.
I keep it pretty simple - just 4 columns: Date, Description, Asset/Liability/Equity, and Amount. I track things like equipment purchases, loan balances, cash in/out, etc. QuickBooks should actually give you most of this info if you run a Balance Sheet report at year-end, but having your own tracker helps you spot errors. For your situation with the business loan, you'd want to make sure QB is properly categorizing the loan as a liability and any equipment you bought with it as assets. The key is making sure your "books" (QuickBooks) match what you put on the tax forms. If there are differences, that's what goes on Schedule M-1.
Has anyone used Rev. Proc. 96-10 for a partnership division? My understanding is it provides a safe harbor for certain types of partnership splits.
Rev. Proc. 96-10 was actually superseded by later guidance. You're better off looking at Rev. Proc. 2018-3 which addresses the current IRS position on partnership divisions. The key factors they look at now include business purpose, continuity of partnership business, and whether partners maintain substantially the same interests.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is the importance of timing your division carefully. The IRS looks at the entire series of transactions, not just individual steps, when evaluating disguised sales under Section 707(a)(2)(B). Since you mentioned the real estate has significant appreciation, you'll want to be particularly careful about how debt allocations are handled. If any partner receives a reduction in their share of partnership debt as part of the division, that could be treated as a deemed cash distribution and trigger disguised sale treatment. Also, make sure to document the business purpose for the split thoroughly. The IRS is more likely to respect the transaction if you can show legitimate business reasons (like different investment strategies, geographic focus, or management philosophies) rather than just tax avoidance motives. Given the $875K value involved, I'd strongly recommend getting a second opinion from a tax professional who specializes in partnership taxation before proceeding. The potential tax consequences of getting this wrong could be substantial.
This is really helpful - the debt allocation piece is something our CPA mentioned briefly but didn't elaborate on. Can you explain more about how a reduction in debt share triggers deemed distributions? In our case, the Old LLC has about $350K in mortgage debt on the real estate, and I'm not sure how that gets allocated when we split. Does it matter if the debt stays with the property that's being transferred, or do we need to maintain proportional debt shares across both entities?
Has anyone actually calculated the annual costs of maintaining an LLC vs S-Corp for rentals? My CPA charges: - $800 for LLC tax return - $1,200 for S-Corp tax return plus - $600 for payroll if S-Corp Plus NY has that stupid LLC publication requirement that costs around $1,000 depending on which county your property is in! I'm wondering if the liability protection is even worth all these extra costs for a single duplex?
The cost analysis is really important and often overlooked! For NY specifically, you're also dealing with the LLC publication requirement which can be brutal - I paid almost $1,200 for mine in Nassau County. But here's the thing - you don't need an LLC to cost $800+ annually. If you keep it as a single-member disregarded entity, there's no separate tax return at all. The rental income just flows through to your Schedule E on your personal return. Your CPA is probably quoting you the price for a multi-member LLC taxed as a partnership, which does require Form 1065. For liability protection on a single duplex, consider whether adequate landlord insurance plus an umbrella policy might give you similar protection at a fraction of the cost. Many investors find that $1-2M in umbrella coverage costs under $300/year and covers most realistic liability scenarios. That said, if you're planning to grow your portfolio, the LLC makes more sense as a long-term strategy. Just make sure you're not paying for unnecessary tax filings!
This is incredibly helpful! I had no idea that a single-member LLC wouldn't require a separate tax return. My attorney made it sound like I'd definitely need to file additional paperwork every year, which was part of my hesitation about the whole LLC setup. The umbrella insurance angle is something I hadn't considered either. I'm already paying for landlord insurance, so adding umbrella coverage for a few hundred dollars versus potentially thousands in annual LLC costs and filing fees makes a lot of financial sense for my situation with just one duplex. Do you know if there are any downsides to starting with just insurance coverage and then forming an LLC later if I expand my portfolio? I'm trying to balance protection with keeping things simple and cost-effective while I'm getting started.
You can absolutely start with insurance and add an LLC later - there's no penalty for transferring property into an LLC after the fact. You'll just need to update your insurance policies and mortgage (if applicable) to reflect the new owner, and some lenders require consent for transfers. The main downside is that any liability events that occur before you form the LLC won't be protected by the entity structure. But with good insurance coverage, this risk is pretty minimal for most rental situations. One tip: if you do decide to form an LLC later, try to do it at the beginning of a tax year to keep your bookkeeping clean. And definitely shop around for that NY publication requirement - prices vary wildly between newspapers and some attorneys have relationships that can cut those costs significantly. Starting simple and growing into complexity as your portfolio expands is usually the smartest approach. You can always reassess your structure as your situation changes!
Just wanna check I'm understanding this correctly. If my brokerage sends me a 1099-B showing I made $2,000 profit trading BOIL, but the K-1 shows $500 in ordinary income from the partnership, I need to report BOTH the $2,000 capital gain AND the $500 ordinary income? That seems like double taxation on the same investment. What am I missing here?
You're not being double-taxed! They're actually two different types of income from the same investment. The $2,000 profit on your 1099-B represents your personal gain from buying the ETF at one price and selling it at a higher price. This is your capital gain from trading. The $500 on the K-1 represents your share of the income that the partnership (the ETF itself) earned internally during the time you owned it - this might be from things like interest, dividends, or trading profits that the fund itself generated. This is ordinary income that "flows through" to you as a partner. They're completely separate income streams from the same investment, which is why they need to be reported separately. It's like if you owned a rental property - you'd report both the rental income you received during ownership AND any capital gain when you eventually sold the property.
Ok that makes more sense. So the $500 on the K-1 is basically what the fund earned internally while I was holding it, and the $2,000 on the 1099-B is what I made personally from buying low and selling high. Different income sources from the same investment. I'm still annoyed nobody warns you about this tax complexity before you buy these things! My broker never mentioned I'd be getting a K-1.
You're absolutely right that brokers should warn investors about K-1 complexity! It's actually required disclosure, but it's usually buried deep in the prospectus that most people don't read. Here's a pro tip for future ETF investing: Before buying any commodity or futures-based ETF, check the fund's website for their "tax information" section. If they mention issuing Schedule K-1s, you'll know what you're getting into. You can also look at the fund structure - if it says "LP" (Limited Partnership) anywhere, that's your red flag for K-1s. Most major brokers also have a filter in their research tools to exclude partnerships if you want to avoid K-1s entirely. It's under the "fund structure" or "tax structure" filters when screening ETFs. The good news is that once you've dealt with it once, it gets easier. And honestly, the extra tax complexity is often worth it for the specific exposure these funds provide - you just need to factor in the additional tax prep time/cost when deciding if the investment makes sense for your situation.
This is really helpful advice! I wish I had known about checking for "LP" in the fund structure before I started trading these ETFs. Quick question - do all commodity ETFs issue K-1s, or are there some that are structured differently? I'm thinking about diversifying into other commodities but want to avoid the K-1 headache if possible. Also, when you mention the broker filters for excluding partnerships, do you know if that's available on most major platforms like Fidelity, Schwab, TD Ameritrade? I've been using Robinhood mostly and I don't think they have those advanced screening tools.
Sean Kelly
Great question! I've been doing taxes for about 8 years now and still see this confusion all the time. Here's how I explain it to clients: "We're currently in the 2023 tax filing season" - this is usually what they want to know. We're filing returns for income earned in 2023, with a deadline of April 15, 2024. But I always follow up with: "Is there something specific you're trying to figure out?" Because sometimes they're asking about: - Whether they missed a deadline (2023 returns) - What year to put on forms they're filling out now (2024) - When their next tax return will be due (2024 taxes due April 2025) The key is not assuming what they mean by "tax year." I've found that about half the time, they're really asking "Am I late filing something?" rather than wanting a technical explanation of tax years vs. filing seasons. One phrase that works well: "Right now we're filing 2023 tax returns, but if you're earning money today, that goes on next year's return." Keeps it simple but covers both scenarios!
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Amina Toure
ā¢This is such a helpful explanation! I'm new to tax preparation and was getting really overwhelmed by all the different ways clients ask this question. Your approach of asking "Is there something specific you're trying to figure out?" is brilliant - it gets to the root of what they actually need instead of just giving them more confusing information. I've been making the mistake of launching into technical explanations about tax years vs filing seasons when most people just want to know if they're on time with their paperwork. The "Am I late filing something?" insight is spot on - that's probably what 80% of my confused callers are really worried about. Thanks for sharing your experience! This will definitely help me handle these calls better.
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James Martinez
As someone who's been handling client calls for about 3 years, I've found that creating a simple "cheat sheet" for this exact question has been a lifesaver. I keep it right by my phone and it has saved me so much confusion. My go-to response is: "We're currently in the 2023 tax filing season, which means we're preparing returns for income you earned last year in 2023. Those returns are due April 15th, 2024. Any income you're earning right now in 2024 will go on next year's tax return." But honestly, the best advice I can give is what others have mentioned - always ask a follow-up question. I usually say "What specifically are you trying to figure out?" because 9 times out of 10, they're not actually asking for a technical explanation of tax years. They're usually wondering: - "Did I miss the deadline to file?" - "What year do I put on this form I'm filling out?" - "When is my next payment due?" Once you know what they're really asking, you can give them the exact information they need instead of a confusing lecture about tax terminology. It's made my job so much easier and clients seem way less frustrated after our calls!
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