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Just throwing this out there - I made the mistake of NOT including Form 5329 with my tax return in a similar situation (had already mailed it separately). Ended up getting a confusing notice from the IRS 6 months later suggesting I hadn't requested the waiver at all! Had to call and explain everything all over again. Better to include all relevant forms with your tax return, even if redundant. Makes your return complete and consistent. TurboTax is actually doing you a favor by generating it correctly!
Based on all the discussion here, I'm convinced that including the Form 5329 with your tax return is the right move, even though you already submitted one separately. The consistency between both forms (showing the missed RMD amount and requesting the penalty waiver) actually strengthens your case. What really helped me understand this was seeing how other people handled similar situations. The key seems to be that the IRS systems are designed to handle these types of duplicate submissions, and having the form included with your complete tax return creates a more comprehensive record. Since TurboTax is generating the form correctly with the proper notation (missed RMD amount to the side of line 54 and "0" on line 54), I'd go ahead and include it. The worst case scenario is redundancy, which is much better than having an incomplete return that might trigger confusing notices later. Your situation with the December payment not clearing until January is a classic example of reasonable cause, so documenting it consistently across both submissions should work in your favor for the penalty waiver.
One thing nobody's mentioned yet - if you file for an extension and pay what you think you'll owe, you'll avoid the late filing penalty (which is much higher than the late payment penalty). The late filing penalty is 5% of unpaid taxes for each month your return is late, while the late payment penalty is just 0.5% per month.
But don't you still have to pay by April 15 regardless of whether you file an extension? So if you underestimate what you owe, you'll still get hit with penalties, right?
Yes, you still need to pay by April 15 even with an extension. The extension only gives you more time to file your return, not to pay what you owe. If you underestimate and don't pay at least 90% of your actual tax liability (or meet the safe harbor rule of paying 100%/110% of last year's tax), you'll face underpayment penalties. However, the key benefit is avoiding the much steeper late filing penalty if you can't get your return completed by the deadline. It's basically damage control - you might still owe some interest and underpayment penalties, but you avoid the worst penalty (late filing) by getting that extension filed on time.
Your plan is actually quite sound! As someone who's been through similar complexity with multiple 1099s and investment income, I'd suggest one additional consideration: make sure you're calculating your estimated payments correctly if you switch from accrual to cash accounting mid-year. The accounting method change can affect not just your current year taxes, but also create a Section 481(a) adjustment that might spread over multiple years. This could impact your estimated payment calculations for the rest of 2024. Also, regarding those K-1s - many partnerships and REITs routinely file extensions themselves, so don't be surprised if some don't arrive until September. Having that extension in place gives you flexibility to incorporate them into a superseding return rather than dealing with multiple amendments. One tip: keep detailed records of all your estimated payment calculations and the reasoning behind them. If you do face any underpayment penalties later, having documentation that shows you made reasonable estimates based on available information can help if you need to request penalty relief. The superseding return approach is definitely the way to go in your situation. Just make sure to file it before your extended deadline to maintain that advantage over an amended return.
This is really helpful! I hadn't thought about how the Section 481(a) adjustment might affect my quarterly payments. When you mention it could spread over multiple years, does that mean I might need to make larger estimated payments this year to account for the catch-up income from switching accounting methods? Or would that adjustment typically reduce my current year liability? Also, regarding the penalty relief documentation - should I be keeping records of things like when I made good faith efforts to get K-1s from partnerships, or is it more about documenting my calculation methodology?
Has anyone actually gone through the process of amending a return for this specific issue? I'm in a similar situation but wondering if the hassle of amending is worth it. How long did it take to get your refund for the overpaid NIIT?
I did this last year for the exact same issue. Filed Form 1040-X along with a corrected Schedule E and Form 8960. Took about 16 weeks to process (the IRS is slow with amendments), but I got back over $5,400 from the NIIT I shouldn't have paid on my S-Corp income. If your overpayment is significant, it's definitely worth the hassle. The hardest part was explaining to my original tax preparer why we needed to reclassify the income - he kept insisting it didn't matter!
I went through this exact same situation a couple years ago! My tax preparer had been classifying my S-Corp income as passive for THREE years before I caught it. Like you, I'm the sole owner-employee doing all the work - there was nothing passive about it. The material participation tests that Connor mentioned are key here. Since you're the only employee, you almost certainly qualify under multiple tests, especially the "substantially all the work" test (#2) and likely the 500+ hours test (#1) as well. I ended up filing amended returns for all three years I was eligible to amend (you have 3 years from the original filing date). The total NIIT refund was substantial - over $12,000 combined. Each amended return took about 4-5 months to process, but it was absolutely worth it. One tip: when you meet with your EA about this, bring documentation showing your hours worked and level of involvement in the business. Even though it should be obvious that you materially participate, having records helps support the classification change. Also, make sure they understand this affects both your Schedule E AND your Form 8960 calculation. Don't let them brush this off as "not important" - the NIIT savings alone make it worth correcting, and you want to make sure it's done right going forward.
Wow, $12,000 in NIIT refunds over three years - that really puts the impact in perspective! I'm definitely going to push forward with amending at least last year's return. Quick question about the documentation you mentioned - what kind of records did you use to show your hours and involvement? I don't have formal timesheets since it's just me, but I do have client billing records, email timestamps, and my business calendar that would show daily activity. Would that type of documentation be sufficient to demonstrate material participation? Also, did you end up switching tax preparers after discovering they'd been making this mistake for multiple years?
I'm going through the exact same thing right now! Second year in a row of ID verification and it's been driving me crazy wondering if this is just my life now. Reading through all these responses has been so reassuring though - sounds like most people eventually get out of this cycle. What really stands out to me is how many different factors can trigger this. I've been racking my brain trying to figure out what changed in my situation, but now I'm realizing it could be anything from my zip code to the specific combination of credits I claim. The proactive ID.me verification tip from @Chloe Anderson sounds brilliant - I'm definitely going to set that up before I file next year. And @Omar Zaki's strategy about calling to get a verification history note added is something I never would have thought of but makes total sense. It's frustrating that the IRS is so opaque about their selection process, but at least knowing that other people have made it through gives me hope. Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences - this thread has been more helpful than anything I could find on the official IRS website!
@Sofรญa Rodrรญguez I m'so glad this thread has been helpful for you too! I just went through my first year of ID verification and was panicking that I d'be stuck in this forever. Reading everyone s'experiences has been such a relief - especially knowing that most people do eventually get out of this cycle. I m'definitely bookmarking @Chloe Anderson s ID.me'tip and @Omar Zaki s strategy about'calling to add verification notes. It s crazy how'we have to become detective-experts just to navigate our own tax returns! But at least now I feel like I have a game plan instead of just crossing my fingers and hoping for the best next year. Thanks for putting together such a thoughtful summary of all the advice in this thread. Sometimes it helps just knowing you re not alone'in this frustrating process!
This thread has been incredibly enlightening! I'm currently dealing with my first ID verification requirement and was terrified this would become a permanent thing. Reading everyone's experiences - especially @Omar Zaki's success story and @Chloe Anderson's proactive ID.me strategy - gives me so much hope. What strikes me most is how the IRS system seems to create these feedback loops that trap legitimate taxpayers, but there ARE ways to break out of the cycle. The combination of proactive verification through ID.me, keeping detailed records, and potentially calling to add verification history notes to your account sounds like a solid game plan. I'm definitely going to set up my ID.me account before filing next year and document everything about this current verification process. It's frustrating that we have to become tax strategy experts just to file our returns, but at least now I feel armed with actual actionable steps instead of just hoping for the best. Thanks to everyone who shared their experiences - this community knowledge is worth its weight in gold when dealing with these opaque IRS processes! ๐
@Zoe Christodoulou This thread really has been a goldmine of practical advice! I m'new to this community but dealing with the same ID verification frustration for the first time this year. What really resonates with me is how everyone s'sharing actual strategies instead of just venting though (the venting is therapeutic too! .)The fact that @Omar Zaki was able to break the cycle by being proactive with the IRS gives me hope that this isn t just'a random lottery we re stuck'in forever. And @Chloe Anderson s ID.me tip'seems like such a simple but brilliant way to get ahead of the problem. I m bookmarking this'entire thread as my ID verification survival "guide - definitely the" most useful information I ve found anywhere'about this process. Thanks for summarizing it so well!
Kristin Frank
psst... call your local tax advocate. they can tell you exactly wuts happening
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Micah Trail
โขgood luck getting thru tho. been on hold for 2 hrs today already
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Sean Kelly
Been dealing with this exact same issue! My transcript shows 846 code but WMR is still stuck on "processing" - it's so frustrating when you need that money ASAP. From what I've learned lurking here, if your transcript doesn't show "DPC" next to the 846 code, you're probably getting a paper check. Also check if there's any freeze codes (like 971 or 570) that might indicate why they switched from DD to check. The IRS systems are definitely not synced up properly between transcript and WMR updates ๐
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Lourdes Fox
โข@Sean Kelly this is super helpful! I didn t'know about the DPC thing next to the 846 code. Just checked my transcript and no DPC so looks like I m'getting a check too ๐ Do you know roughly how long it takes for the check to arrive once the 846 code shows up? I m'in the same boat needing this money urgently
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