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Aidan Hudson

Why can't unemployment be 0 - Washington ESD economics question

I've been thinking about this since I started my UI claim last month. If the government really wanted to solve unemployment, why can't they just make it 0%? Like, why is there always some percentage of people without jobs even when the economy is supposedly doing well? I'm not an economics expert but it seems like if Washington ESD and other agencies are processing so many claims, there must be a systemic reason unemployment can't just disappear entirely. Is it because some unemployment is actually necessary for the economy to function? This might sound naive but I'm genuinely curious while I navigate this whole Washington ESD system.

Great question! There are several economic reasons why 0% unemployment isn't realistic or even desirable. First, there's 'frictional unemployment' - people who are temporarily between jobs while transitioning careers or relocating. Then there's 'structural unemployment' when workers' skills don't match available jobs. Even in a perfect economy, you'd have people entering the workforce, changing careers, or taking time to find the right fit. Most economists consider 3-5% unemployment to be 'full employment' because it allows for natural job market mobility.

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That makes sense about people transitioning between jobs. I never thought about how some unemployment is just normal job market movement.

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Yeah but what about all the people stuck in adjudication for months? That's not frictional unemployment, that's just Washington ESD being slow as hell.

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The economic term you're looking for is 'natural rate of unemployment.' Even at full employment, there will always be some people between jobs, entering the workforce, or whose skills need updating. If unemployment got too low (like under 2%), it could actually cause inflation because employers would have to compete so hard for workers that wages would spike rapidly.

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Interesting point about inflation. So some unemployment actually helps keep the economy stable?

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Exactly. It's counterintuitive but a small amount of unemployment gives the labor market flexibility to adjust to economic changes.

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From a practical standpoint, there will always be seasonal unemployment too. Think about retail workers after holidays, agricultural workers between seasons, construction workers during bad weather. That's why Washington ESD has different benefit types like standby status - because some unemployment is predictable and temporary.

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Oh right, I forgot about seasonal work. My friend works construction and gets laid off every winter.

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seasonal unemployment is such a pain though, especially when you have to reapply for benefits constantly

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Look, the real reason unemployment can't be zero is because the system isn't designed to eliminate it. Washington ESD and employers benefit from having a pool of available workers - it keeps wages down and gives companies leverage. It's not some natural economic law, it's by design.

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While there's some truth to power dynamics in employment, the economic principles of frictional and structural unemployment are well-documented phenomena that exist regardless of policy decisions.

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Economic principles written by economists who work for the system that benefits from unemployment existing. Just saying.

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conspiracy theories aside, the math just doesn't work for 0% unemployment in a dynamic economy

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I've been dealing with Washington ESD for 8 weeks now and honestly, part of the unemployment problem is just how hard it is to get help when you need it. I've called hundreds of times trying to resolve my adjudication issue. If people could actually get through to agents efficiently, maybe more people could get back to work faster.

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Have you tried using Claimyr? I found it at claimyr.com when I was having the same problem reaching Washington ESD. They basically auto-dial for you and connect you when an agent picks up. There's a demo video at https://youtu.be/7DieNd3C7zQ that shows how it works.

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I haven't heard of that before. Does it actually work for getting through to Washington ESD?

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Yeah, I got connected within a few hours instead of spending days trying to call. Really helpful for resolving claim issues that are keeping you unemployed longer than necessary.

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There's also technological unemployment to consider. As automation advances, some jobs become obsolete faster than new ones are created. Even with perfect job training programs, there's always going to be a lag time while workers adapt to new technology and industries.

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That's scary to think about. What happens when AI starts replacing more jobs?

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we'll probably need universal basic income at some point but that's way beyond what washington esd deals with now

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Don't forget about voluntary unemployment too. Some people choose not to work for personal reasons - caring for family, going back to school, early retirement. As long as people have choices about when and how to work, you'll never have 100% employment participation.

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True, though those people usually aren't filing UI claims with Washington ESD since they're not actively seeking work.

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Right, but they still count in unemployment statistics even if they're not claiming benefits.

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Honestly after being unemployed for 4 months I think the real question isn't why unemployment can't be zero, it's why it takes so damn long to process claims and get people the help they need. The bureaucracy creates artificial unemployment by making it harder for people to transition back to work.

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THIS. I've been waiting 6 weeks for my adjudication to resolve. How is that helping the economy?

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Same here, stuck in pending status forever. At this point I'm wondering if I should just take any minimum wage job instead of waiting for Washington ESD to figure their stuff out.

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In economics class they taught us about the Phillips Curve - there's supposedly a tradeoff between unemployment and inflation. When unemployment gets too low, inflation tends to rise because workers have more bargaining power for higher wages. So maintaining some unemployment is seen as necessary for price stability.

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The Phillips Curve relationship has been challenged by economists in recent decades, especially after the stagflation of the 1970s. It's not as straightforward as originally thought.

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Fair point, economic models are always evolving. But the basic idea that extremely low unemployment can cause economic imbalances still holds some weight.

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From a business perspective, companies need some flexibility in their workforce. Economic conditions change, demand fluctuates, new technologies emerge. If everyone was permanently employed, businesses couldn't adapt to changing market conditions. Some level of job turnover is actually healthy for innovation and efficiency.

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That sounds like corporate propaganda to justify treating workers as disposable.

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I'm not saying it's ideal, just explaining why zero unemployment isn't realistic in a market economy. Creative destruction is a real economic force.

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Geographic factors play a role too. Jobs might be available in one area but not another, and not everyone can relocate easily. Even with perfect job matching, there will always be mismatches between where jobs are and where unemployed people live.

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Exactly, I see tons of job postings in Seattle but I can't afford to move there from my small town.

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Remote work has helped with this somewhat but not all jobs can be done remotely

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I think the bigger issue is making sure unemployment benefits actually work when people need them. I've been trying to reach Washington ESD for weeks about my claim status. The system breaks down when people who want to work can't get the support they need during transitions.

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If you're having trouble reaching them, I used Claimyr recently and it worked great. You can check it out at claimyr.com - they handle all the calling hassle for you. Made a huge difference in getting my issues resolved with Washington ESD.

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How does that work exactly? Do they actually get you through to a real person?

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Yeah, they call repeatedly until they get through, then conference you in with the agent. Saved me probably 20+ hours of dialing busy signals.

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Skills mismatches are huge too. Even when there are job openings, unemployed workers might not have the right qualifications. Retraining takes time, and during that period people are unemployed even though jobs technically exist.

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This is why I'm going back to school while on unemployment. Better to use this time to gain new skills than just wait around.

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Good strategy, though make sure you're still meeting your job search requirements for Washington ESD if you're claiming benefits.

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realistically zero unemployment would mean zero job mobility and that would be terrible for workers. you'd be stuck wherever you started working forever because leaving would mean someone else loses their job to keep unemployment at zero

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I never thought about it that way. So some unemployment is actually good for worker freedom?

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Exactly. Job mobility is crucial for career advancement and finding better opportunities.

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The question isn't really about eliminating unemployment completely, it's about reducing unnecessary unemployment caused by inefficient systems. Like when Washington ESD takes forever to process claims or when job search requirements don't actually help people find work.

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Agreed. Focus should be on making transitions faster and smoother, not eliminating all unemployment.

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The job search requirements are such a joke anyway. Applying to random jobs you're not qualified for doesn't help anyone.

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From a psychological standpoint, some people need breaks between jobs to avoid burnout or deal with personal issues. Forcing everyone to be employed all the time would probably hurt mental health and productivity in the long run.

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True, though unemployment benefits help make those breaks financially viable for people who need them.

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Right, which is why having a functional unemployment system like Washington ESD is important, even if it's not perfect.

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International trade creates unemployment too. When companies move production overseas or import cheaper goods, domestic workers lose jobs. Even with perfect domestic policy, global economic forces would still create some unemployment.

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That's why we need better trade policies that protect American workers.

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Trade protectionism has its own economic costs though. It's not a simple solution.

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Age discrimination is real too. Older workers often have a harder time finding new jobs even when they're qualified. Until that changes, you'll always have some long-term unemployed people regardless of how many jobs are available.

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I'm 55 and this is so true. Been looking for 8 months and barely getting interviews despite my experience.

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Have you tried reaching out to Washington ESD about their reemployment services? Sometimes they have programs specifically for older workers.

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Good luck getting through to them to ask about it. I've been trying for weeks. Might try that Claimyr service someone mentioned earlier.

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Bottom line is that 0% unemployment would require perfect information, perfect mobility, perfect skills matching, and perfect timing - none of which exist in the real world. The goal should be minimizing unnecessary unemployment while accepting that some level is inevitable in a dynamic economy.

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Thanks everyone for all the explanations. This makes way more sense now. I guess the focus should be on making the unemployment system work better for people who need it.

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Exactly. And making sure Washington ESD actually serves unemployed people efficiently instead of creating more barriers.

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