

Ask the community...
One important point for everyone following this discussion - while the Social Security Fairness Act would eliminate WEP/GPO for domestic public employees, international pension issues are typically governed by bilateral Social Security agreements (totalization agreements). These agreements are negotiated country-by-country and have their own unique provisions. If you have work history in multiple countries, it's essential to understand both the general WEP rules and the specific provisions of any applicable totalization agreement. These agreements help determine: 1. Whether you can combine work credits from both countries to qualify for benefits 2. How benefits are calculated when you have split work histories 3. Which country's benefits you're eligible to receive The US-UK agreement helps prevent double taxation and allows for totalizing credits, but it doesn't completely eliminate WEP reductions.
This is really helpful information, thank you. I think I need to specifically ask about the US-UK totalization agreement when I finally get through to someone at SSA. Do you know if there's a specific department or specialist at SSA that handles international cases?
When you call SSA, ask to speak with someone in the Office of International Operations (OIO). They handle cases involving foreign pensions and totalization agreements. You can also mention that your case involves the US-UK totalization agreement specifically - this should help them route you to the right specialist. I had a similar situation with a Canadian pension and it took three transfers, but I finally got someone who understood the international agreements. Don't give up!
I'm in a similar boat with a pension from Australia! Been dealing with WEP reductions for 3 years now and it's so frustrating. From what I've researched, the Social Security Fairness Act unfortunately won't help us with foreign pensions - it's really focused on US government workers like teachers and police officers who didn't pay into Social Security during their government service. The international pension situation is handled under totally different rules through those totalization agreements everyone's mentioning. I've been told by multiple people that we're basically stuck with WEP unless we can somehow get to 30 years of substantial US earnings (which seems impossible for most of us who worked abroad). @Andre Laurent thanks for mentioning the Office of International Operations - I didn't know there was a specific department for this! Going to try calling and asking for OIO directly instead of getting bounced around to regular customer service.
Thanks for sharing your experience with the Australian pension! It's somewhat comforting to know I'm not alone in this frustrating situation, though I wish none of us had to deal with it. The fact that we paid into both systems in good faith and now get penalized feels so unfair. I'm definitely going to try calling and specifically asking for the Office of International Operations like @Andre Laurent suggested. Hopefully they ll'have more specific knowledge about the US-UK agreement. Have you had any luck getting through to OIO yet, or are you still trying to reach them?
I'm dealing with something similar but with a pension from Canada. Been getting WEP reductions for about 5 years now and like you said, it's incredibly frustrating! The whole system seems designed to penalize people who worked internationally and contributed to multiple systems in good faith. I actually tried calling SSA last month asking specifically for the Office of International Operations after seeing it mentioned in some forums, and it did help! They were able to transfer me to someone who actually understood totalization agreements instead of just reading generic WEP information from a script. Still didn't get the answer I was hoping for (no magical loophole to eliminate my reduction), but at least I got clear information about my specific situation. @LilMama23 definitely try asking for OIO - even if the news isn't great, it's better to get accurate information from someone who knows international cases rather than getting the runaround from regular customer service. Good luck!
As someone who works with disability cases, I want to emphasize that your sister should definitely pursue this now rather than assuming she has to wait until 62. The disabled divorced spouse benefit is a real provision that many people (including some SSA representatives) aren't familiar with. Since both she and her ex-husband are receiving disability benefits, the calculation can be tricky, but she may be entitled to the difference between her current SSDI amount and 50% of her ex-husband's Primary Insurance Amount (PIA) - not his reduced disability amount, but what his full retirement benefit would be at his full retirement age. When she calls, she should specifically mention she's asking about "disabled divorced spouse benefits under Section 202(b)(4) of the Social Security Act" - using that specific legal reference might help get her to someone who knows these rules. The fact that they were married 20 years and divorced 12 years ago puts her in a strong position eligibility-wise. Also, don't let one "no" discourage you - these cases sometimes require persistence and speaking with multiple representatives to find one who understands the specialized rules for disabled divorced spouses.
This is incredibly detailed and helpful information! Thank you for providing the specific legal reference - "Section 202(b)(4) of the Social Security Act." That's exactly the kind of specific language that should help her get to the right person who actually knows these specialized rules. I'm writing all of this down for her. The point about not giving up after one "no" is so important too - it sounds like persistence might be key here. Really appreciate you taking the time to explain the PIA calculation difference as well!
I just wanted to share my experience since I went through something very similar with my brother last year. He was 58, on SSDI for 4 years, and his ex-wife had just started receiving her own disability benefits. Initially, the SSA representative told him he'd have to wait until 62, but after we pushed back and specifically asked about disabled divorced spouse benefits, they connected us with a technical expert who confirmed he WAS eligible for additional benefits immediately. The key was getting to someone who actually understood these specialized rules. It took three phone calls and about 6 weeks to get it sorted out, but he ended up getting an additional $280/month retroactive to when his ex-wife first became eligible for benefits. Your sister's situation sounds even stronger since they were married for 20 years (vs my brother's 12 years). Definitely have her mention the specific legal provision that Zoey referenced - that really seemed to help get us to the right person. And don't give up if the first representative says no!
That makes PERFECT sense and explains the confusion! His benefit is right around $3,100 and she said the family max was about $5,200. So she was saying the family would get about 67% MORE in total, not that each dependent would get 67% of his benefit. Thank you for helping me make sense of this!
I'm glad you got that sorted out! Just wanted to add one more thing that might be helpful - when you do call SSA back to confirm everything, ask them to mail you a written benefit estimate that shows the breakdown for each family member. Having it in writing can prevent any confusion later and gives you something to reference if there are discrepancies when payments start. I learned this the hard way when our family went through the SSDI process. The written estimates are usually pretty accurate and can save you a lot of headaches down the road.
This is such great advice! I'm new to navigating SSDI and didn't even know you could request written benefit estimates. That would definitely give me peace of mind to have everything documented before the payments start. Did you find that the written estimates matched what you actually received when payments began? I'm still a bit nervous about counting on any numbers until I see the actual deposits!
I'm so sorry to hear about the change in your retirement strategy! The deemed filing rule really did eliminate a lot of flexibility for people in your situation. But don't give up hope yet - there might still be some options worth exploring. Since you're planning to retire at 62 and your own benefit will be higher at 67, you might want to consider: 1. Working part-time until your FRA to avoid the early filing reduction penalties 2. If you do need income before 67, remember that the earnings test goes away completely once you reach FRA, so any benefits withheld due to excess earnings get added back to your future payments 3. Consider doing some Roth conversions now while you're still working and in potentially lower tax brackets, to reduce future RMDs that could push you into higher SS taxation brackets Also, make sure to get an updated benefit estimate from SSA that shows both your own projected benefit and the divorced spousal benefit, so you can see exactly what the numbers look like under deemed filing. The silver lining is that at least you found out about this now and can adjust your planning accordingly!
This is really helpful advice, thank you! I hadn't thought about the earnings test benefits being added back later - that does make early filing less painful if I really need the income. The Roth conversion idea is interesting too. I've been putting that off but maybe now is the time to start doing some strategic conversions while I'm still working and before I start taking Social Security. I definitely need to get those updated benefit estimates from SSA. I've been working with old projections and need to see the real numbers under deemed filing to make an informed decision. It's frustrating that the rules changed, but I'm grateful for communities like this where people share their real experiences and knowledge. Much better than trying to navigate the SSA website alone!
Just wanted to chime in as someone who went through a similar situation a few years ago. The deemed filing rule really is a game-changer for retirement planning, and it sounds like you're getting great advice here about adapting your strategy. One thing I'd add - when you do get those updated benefit estimates from SSA, pay close attention to your earnings record to make sure it's accurate. I found several years where my earnings weren't properly credited, which would have significantly affected my benefit calculation. You can dispute and correct errors, but it's much easier to do while you're still working and have access to your old tax records. Also, regarding the taxation thresholds that were mentioned earlier - don't forget that those dollar amounts ($25k, $34k, etc.) haven't been adjusted for inflation since they were set in the 1980s! So more and more retirees find themselves paying taxes on their Social Security benefits than was originally intended. Definitely factor that into your withdrawal strategies. The good news is you still have several years to optimize your approach. Take advantage of that time to really understand all your options!
Dmitry Smirnov
I'm new to this community but wanted to offer some support and additional thoughts. As someone who has helped family members navigate SSA claims, I'd suggest also looking into whether you have any old credit reports or loan applications from that time period where you might have listed each other as co-applicants or references. Sometimes people forget about these documents, but they can show financial interdependence during your common law period. Also, if you had any joint memberships (gym, Costco, etc.) or shared cell phone plans during those 2 years in Colorado, those records might still be available. The key is building a comprehensive picture of your life as a married couple before the legal ceremony. I know it's overwhelming to gather all this documentation while grieving, but Colorado's recognition of common law marriage really does give you a legitimate shot at meeting that 10-year requirement. Don't let the bureaucracy intimidate you - you have every right to pursue these benefits after an 11+ year relationship. Sending you strength for your upcoming appointment!
0 coins
Jamal Wilson
•Thank you for these additional suggestions, Dmitry! I really appreciate you taking the time to think through all these different types of documentation. You're right about credit reports and loan applications - we actually applied for a car loan together during that time period, so I should be able to get those records. The joint memberships idea is brilliant too - we definitely had a shared gym membership at the local YMCA. I'm making a comprehensive list of all these suggestions from everyone, and it's giving me so much more confidence going into my appointment. It's been incredibly helpful to have this community's support during such a difficult time. Thank you for the encouragement and for reminding me that I have every right to pursue what I'm entitled to after our long relationship together.
0 coins
Bethany Groves
I'm so sorry for your loss, Felicity. What you're going through sounds incredibly stressful on top of an already difficult time. I'm new to this community but wanted to reach out because your situation really resonates with me. The advice about Colorado recognizing common law marriage seems really promising! One thing I wanted to add that might help - have you considered looking for any old correspondence between you two during that period? Things like emails, letters, or even text messages (if you still have old phones or backups) where you referred to each other as husband/wife or discussed shared future plans? Sometimes these personal communications can be powerful evidence of how you viewed your relationship. Also, if you had any shared subscriptions during those years - magazines, newspapers, streaming services - those records might show joint household management. I know it feels overwhelming to dig through old records while you're grieving, but the fact that so many people here have had success with similar cases in Colorado gives me hope for you. You've got this, and this community clearly has your back!
0 coins